Posted on 06/08/2012 8:21:53 PM PDT by Colofornian
They were not persecuted.
Oh, have the MMM victims all been necrobaptized?
That is worrysome.
Good argument. But, the Deseret News is owned by the LDS Church, and does not hide this fact, and
a pro-LDS slant is not surprising. (Because I do not need this, I do not read it, to answer your question directly.)
The WashPost is supposedly “the newspaper of record” in “our nation’s capitol.”
I expect better of it.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for your note.
(ps: What has the WashPost done to investigate —and report to us on — the current administration?)
(And how many of those grade school-aged kidnapped children, upon turning age 8 during those two years of captivity, were baptized as "Mormons" -- all against the will of their families?)
The 1999 rebuilding and repair of the Mountain Meadows Monument by the LDS Church under the direction of Gordon B. Hinkley was a start, but not enough IMHO.
More recently, I believe that the Church's involvement in the 2007 150th anniversary of the horrific massacre and the official apology the Church gave there for members' involvement, and particularly the book by the LDS Church Historian, Turley, "Massacre at Mountain Meadows," which was published soon thereafter, have gone a long way towards that end.
Hopefully such actions and movement towards reconciling that terrible period in history (including the atrocities against LDS members in Missouri and Illinois which to date themselves have never been reconciled) will either start, or in this case, continue.
It's a LONG way to November!
(What if the Dems decide at their convention to NOT run with Obama?)
****Because of this long-time Mormon silence,***
A few years back it was decided to rebuild some of the MMM monument. A backhoe was brought in and the first shovel full brought up so many bones and skulls that it shook up the diggers. They proposed to fill the hole back in, THEN TAKE AN OATH THEY HAD FOUND NOTHING.
This was reported in a major news magazine, I don’t remember which one.
HUH?
Do you know that a LOT of folks think Obama is a follower of a BAD religion? They seem to think it matters... [Elsie]
Good point, Elz.
Those making the FR brief lecture tour about what is and what isn't "presidential politics" never seem to be able to stop by ANY of the Jeremiah Wright or Obama-is-a-closet-Muslim threads to ask, "What does this have to do with presidential politics?"
Strange lopsided applications (if these were indeed deeply-rooted convictions).
Therefore, I get the sense they are not.
So...Catfish...what is your motivation then for defending Romney?
Personal apologetics for Romney?
(I don't think it's Mormon apologetics)
You see, if you consistently applied your worldviews, it wouldn't come across so religiously hypocritical.
They never finished it Jeff - the mormon church REFUSES to replace the cross that was on the original rock cairn - the one that Brigham Young personally helped tear down. The mormon church’s refusal to allow it to be restored is just another snipe at the surviving families.
****Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws...”
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President*****
And what did the Swedish convert to Mormonism have to say about this? It was “Yoost to fool the Yentiles!” ;-D
“Mormonism’s founder was lynched by Protestants. “
Oh, please. Joe Smith got frontier justice, AFTER opening fire on those surrounding the jail. I wish he’d had a trial, but he earned what he got. The men and women who he cheated, stole from and abused, demanded justice.
Jeff, you keep bringing up atrocities against lds, there were none.
There was anger over child brides, multiple wives, campaigning against the US, burning down business that dared to speak ill of them, defrauding people with their own banks, blaspheming God Almighty, and more - people got sick of it and wanted the lds gone. Perfectly understandable.
Not even all lds left, to follow their cult leaders, hence the creation of many lds groups, now using different names.
Thanks for your reply, Jeff.
I was specific on the century for a reason.
That reason is that within the 21st century, I believe at least an argument could be made that the Lds church has (finally) after about 150 years, begun to address it.
That's why I said 20th century.
Otherwise -- re: the 1999 reference you made on repairing the monument...'Zilla is right: They never finished it Jeff - the mormon church REFUSES to replace the cross that was on the original rock cairn - the one that Brigham Young personally helped tear down. The mormon church’s refusal to allow it to be restored is just another snipe at the surviving families.
So, my question in post #46 stands: Name for me exactly when within the 20th century -- and with who -- the cover-up of the MMM finally ended within Mormonism?
All Mormons, lurkers & posters: If you cannot answer this question -- and especially cannot name ANY 19th or 20th century Mormon leader who did not add to the cover-up, what moral implications does this have for you to claim that you are led by God's living spokesmen?
Yes...this was REALLY quite disturbing. It's covered in Sally Denton's 2003 book entitled: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857 (Vintage Books, division from Random House)
***The confounded thing did not WORK correctly!!***
I think he fired off three rounds, two other cylinders misfired. With those three rounds he wounded several men who later died of their wounds, and may have accidentally shot his own brother Hyrum in the back.
This is a copy of the actually so called extermination order:
Headquarters of the Militia,
City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.
Gen. John B. Clark:
Sir:–Since the order of this morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your Division, I have received by Amos Rees, Esq. of Ray county, and Wiley C. Williams, Esq. one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which entirely changes the face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this State.
Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operations with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace–their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary.
I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north.
They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks, of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred of his Brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.
I am very respectfully,
your ob’t serv’t,
L. W. Boggs, Commander-in-Chief
For your edification and others:
Webster’s 1828 Dictionary:
EXTERMINATE, v.t. [L. extermino; ex and terminus, limit] Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence,
1. To destroy utterly; to drive away; to extirpate; as, to exterminate a colony, a tribe or a nation; to exterminate inhabitants or a race of men.
2. To eradicate; to root out; to extirpate; as to exterminate error, heresy, infidelity, or atheism; to exterminate vice.
Jospeh Smith did not accidentally shot his brother, that had already ocurred at the hands of the mob.
I can see this is going to get into one of those our version of history vs. your version of history contests. No purpose served in that. Joseph Smith is long since dead and was murdered by an illegal mob of thugs who came there for that purpose. His brother Hyrum was killed with him.
It was a sad and tragic part of American history from the Missouri persecutions and killings clear through the Mountain Meadows Massacre which this thead is about.
I pray we can learn from that tragic history and never repeat it on this soil.
Jeff, the Smith brothers were shot in a shoot out after their cohorts smuggled them guns.
This is not a romance cowboy movie, the Smith brothers were in jail for a reason, they tried to escape, it was a gamble, they lost and died.
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