i am a very simple man, when someone tells me they believe in sola scriptura and then denies baptismal regeneration, it gets my attention. when someone has my attention, i listen to what is said and then i ask for the evidence.
soooo......, when i hear someone say baptism is “symbolic”, i ask WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT?
when i hear someone say baptism is a “first act of obedience”, i ask WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT?
when i hear someone say baptism is an outward sign of something that has happenened already, i ask WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT?
the answer to all three questions is NOWHERE.
my BIBLE says baptism IS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT. my Bible says baptism PUTS US INTO CHRIST. my BIBLE says BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU.
now also being a simple man, when someone says Cornelius and his family was regenerated before being baptized in Acts 10, it gets my attention. DOES IT REALLY SAY THAT?
well, let’s see - v44 while Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
now, read that again carefully, it says the Holy Spirit fell on ALL WHO HEARD THE WORD. this means it fell on Cornelius, his family and the believers who accompanied Peter. these believers were regenerated already, since they are referred to as “brethern”. so we know the gift the Holy Spirit gave everyone could not have been regeneration. well, what was the gift? v46 tells us it was tongues, just as happened to the Apostles in Acts 2. NO WHERE IN ACTS 10 NOR 11 DOES IT SAY THESE GENTILES WERE REGENERATED OR HASD THEIR SINS FORGIVEN WITHOUT BAPTISM. do not forget, anyone reading Acts 10 would have already read Acts 2:38 and will read Acts 22:16, where the Holy Spirit thru Luke, makes it clear that baptism is for the remission of sins.
people can hold to their 16th century tradition of men all they like, but the Scriptures teach baptism is for the remission of sins, receiving the Holy Spirit and being placed into Christ.
and for those who claim Paul taught you are regenerated by faith alone, without baptism, i wish to point out what Ananias said to Paul himself in Acts 22:16 - AND NOW WHY DO YOU WAIT? RISE AND BE BAPTIZED, AND WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, CALLING ON HIS NAME.
Paul received baptism for the remission of his sins, Paul taught baptism for the remission of sins.
as for the baptism of desire, the Church teaches it and i accept it. if someone hears the Gospel and believes in Jesus Christ and ACCEPTS THEIR NEED TO BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS and God calls them home before they are able to do so, we can believe they were saved. THIS IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN REJECTING BAPTISM FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND BELIEVING BAPTISM IS SOME USELESS SYMBOLIC CEREMONY.
as far as Protestants being saved, i answered that already. you may have missed it so i will repeat myself. if a Protestant holds the Catholic Faith, i believe salvation is possible. the Nicene Creed sums up the Catholic Faith and it in part says “we acknowledge ONE BAPTISM FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS” as far as i know, Lutherans and Anglicans accept the Nicene Creed.
but if someone truly is a child of God, a new creature in Christ, they will OBEY the Lord and not sin willfully.
Jesus commanded UNITY of His followers, Paul commanded UNITY and Christians to speak with ONE voice.
IT IS SINFUL TO SAY YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS AND REJECT HIS CHURCH. IT IS SINFUL TO ATTACK THE CHURCH AS TEACHING FALSE DOCTRINE AND LEADING MEN ASTRAY.
but, as i say, i am a very simple man.
“i am a very simple man,”
And that is your problem, you cannot deal with systematic theology and the various texts on receiving the Holy Spirit, and your response is simply another example one of your myopic eisegetical attempts which avoid what Act 10 along with the other pertinent verses in #10 of post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2891087/posts?page=965#965 and explained there teach.
Which is that Cornelius and company to whom the gospel was preached realized just what Peter’s preaching promised by believing, that of the remission of sins, God purifying their heart by faith, (Acts 15:9, and thus having already received the Holy Ghost, they were baptized. Their speaking in tongues was how the others knew God had granted them repentance. (Acts 11:15-18)
And your stubborn refusal to accept that obvious teaching sets you at odd with Catholic commentary, including the conservative (stamped) Haydock, which states
Ver. 47. Can any man forbid water? &c. Or doubt that these, on whom the Holy Ghost hath descended, may be made members of the Christian Church, by baptism, as Christ ordained? (Witham)
-— Such may be the grace of God occasionally towards men, and such their great charity and contrition, that they may have remission, justification, and sanctification, before the external sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and penance be received; as we see in this example: where, at Peter’s preaching, they all received the Holy Ghost before any sacrament. - http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id125.html
And Augustine:
Cornelius, even before his baptism, was filled up with the Holy Spirit [Acts 10:44–48], while Simon [Magus], even after his baptism, was puffed up with an unclean spirit [Acts 8:13–19]” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists , 4:21[28]).
I fact would be surprised to find any commentary that agreed with you in rejecting that Cornelius and co were regenerated before baptism (which is not the same as dying in the faith). But you are just another example of how RCs can disagree, while promoting an elitist church.
But at least you finally answered my question as to allowing regeneration before baptism, even if you disallow that for pious Cornelius.
It sure does but you pull that little sentence out of the verse to try to prove something while ignoring the biblical definition of baptism in the verse...
I think Paul got your number when he warned us about people who pull that same tactic...
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
But anyway, here's the entire verse:
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Not a cleansing in the waters of baptism...
Baptism for the Christian is the answer of a good conscience toward God...It's Spiritual...No water...
THAT's the baptism that saves us...