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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
haha, one who claims to have been Catholic at one point should know that Ukrainian Catholics and Roman Catholics are both Catholics in communion with Rome.

*haha* yourself.

The Roman Catholics don't consider Ukrainian Catholics quite good enough and the Ukrainian Catholics know it.

403 posted on 06/09/2012 12:07:24 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
"The Roman Catholics don't consider Ukrainian Catholics quite good enough and the Ukrainian Catholics know it."

Aside from the irony of you ridiculing the the Roman Catholics for allegedly feeling towards another group exactly like you appear to feel about the all Catholics, how could you possibly know this? Do you have some sort of mind reading abilities to render the private thoughts of a billion Catholics in to a cogent thesis or are you projecting again?

405 posted on 06/09/2012 6:42:08 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: metmom

And the poor Orthodox, they dont get no respect from Rome either.


407 posted on 06/09/2012 7:48:37 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: metmom; Natural Law
The Roman Catholics don't consider Ukrainian Catholics quite good enough and the Ukrainian Catholics know it.

Don't be silly. You sound like you've never heard of Lubomyr Husar, a Catholic Cardinal who was considered to be papabile.

416 posted on 06/09/2012 11:18:59 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: metmom

From what i see they officially are in full communion but there are issues, mainly due to historical issues between them and Orthodox churches. Below are a few excerpts relevant to this, chronologically listed, with two overviews first, with links for more:

The Ukrainian Catholic Church

Rite: Byzantine

Membership: 4,321,508

The Ukrainians first received the Christian faith by way of Constantinople. Metropolitan Isidore of Kiev attended the Council of Florence and agreed to union between the Catholics and Orthodox, but the union was ultimately rejected.

In 1569, Jesuits began working for a local union between Catholics and Orthodox as a way of reducing Protestant influence. The Orthodox, for their part, favored such a union to preserve their Byzantine traditions at a time when the Polish Latin Rite Church was expanding.

A synod of Orthodox bishops at Brest in 1595 proclaimed a reunion between Rome and the metropolitan of Kiev. After similar moves in Przemysl in 1692 and Lviv in 1700, two-thirds of Ukraine had become Catholic. But as Orthodox Russia expanded its control into Ukraine, Catholicism was gradually suppressed. In 1839, Tsar Nicholas I abolished the union in all regions under Russian rule, but the Ukrainian Catholic Church thrived in areas under Austrian control. Later, the Soviet Union forced the Ukrainian Catholic Church into the Russian Orthodox Church.

With the fall of the USSR, Ukrainian Catholics emerged from the catacombs, but they've not yet recovered all of their stolen property [the Soviets gave the Orthodox UC buildings years ago]. Lubomyr Cardinal Husar is popularly given the title of Ukrainian Catholic patriarch, but this title hasn't been approved by Rome due to sensitive relations with the Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox. http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0804.html
► Catholicism in the Ukraine:

Unresolved problems

Over 400 years ago Orthodox Christians of the present day western Ukraine broke away from the Orthodox Church and entered into union with Rome. Although they kept their religious traditions and rites they were not totally free from forces of latinization in the various aspects of their ecclesial life. Today, the place of the Greek Catholic Church in the Western Ukraine within Christianity is a topic of dispute and confusion. The Greek Catholic Church is an obstacle in Catholic-Orthodox relations. To overcome this obstacle it is necessary to examine various areas, the historical, the theological and then possibilities for the future. In the study it is deemed essential not to lose sight of the fact that each Church, now and historically, is made up of people, of souls, with their own ways of thinking, their rights and their identity.

Historical Tensions

Since the councils of Brest and Uzhgorod the relation between Russian Orthodoxy and the Greek Catholics of Western Ukraine, as well as with the Church of Rome, have been tense and unfriendly. In order to promote a policy of friendship and forgiveness and Christian peace between these Churches, among these Christians it is certainly necessary to reread history in an open and unprejudiced way...

There are two particular areas of concern in any attempt to resolve the problem surrounding Greek Catholicism. The ideal solution would be the establishment of Eucharistic communion between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. This of course would need in the first place a common agreement on the theological differences, that these differences are complementary rather than contradictory. The understanding and the theological openness to investigate the meaning and the nature of the Papacy is essential to such a process. A theological resolution, maybe only possible through the means of a general ecumenical council, and logically speaking, would mean that the Greek Catholic Churches can not be held to be of an unorthodox or heterodox faith.

The remaining issue, which might well be best to be treated chronologically as the first issue to resolve is the nature of canonical jurisdiction of the Greek Catholic Churches. The present situation of falling under the jurisdiction of Rome is unpleasant to the Orthodox understanding of ecclesial communion. It is also a situation which is not harmonic with the Eastern Christian traditions, theology and spirituality of ecclesial life. http://www.catholic-church.org/church-unity/gk_cat_e.htm

January 1976 Ukraine Church angry with Rome

By a Staff Reporter

The rift between Rome and the Ukrainian Catholic Church over the Pope's unwillingness to appoint Cardinal Joseph Slipyj as patriarch of the Ukrainian Church, widened last Sunday when police were called to deal with a demonstration at the Ukrainian Catholic cathedral near Oxford Street, London

The police, who were summoned by Bishop Augustine Hornyak, removed one of a group of demonstrators who were singing carols to prevent the Bishop from preaching his sermon.

Many Ukrainian exiles feel that Vatican "Ostpolitik" is betraying their struggle against Soviet Russia and want support from Rome in their militant stand. The creation of a separate patriarchate would help unify the Ukrainian diaspora and carry on their cultural and national identity until the hoped for liberation comes. http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/16th-january-1976/1/ukraine-church-angry-with-rome

ORTHODOX - CATHOLIC RELATIONS IN THE USSR [1991?]

by Patricia Lefevere

Catholic and Orthodox believers "must" work together if they are "to testify about Christ in the secular world," said Archbishop Kirill (Goundiaev) of Smolensk in the Soviet Union. But the problem is that they are "unable" to do so--at least in the western Ukraine where bitter and long-standing political, ecclesiastical and ecumenical rivalries have pitted one group of believers against the other in a "nationalistic struggle," he said.

The hostilities could not have come at a worse time, said Kirill, who directs the external affairs department of the Russian Orthodox Chruch. "Our divisions are scandalous; they are turning people away from the church at a moment when great expectation was forseen for Christianity" in the Soviet Union...

In an interview two years ago with this reporter in Moscow, the archbishop predicted that restoration of the legal rights of Ukrainian Catholics [the Soviets stole the UC buildings years ago by giving them to the Orthodox] --if undertaken outside the ecumenical sphere would only further divide the two groups and would soon lead to "warfare." While warfare has been avoided, there have been "ugly" scenes between members of the two churches in many parts of the western Ukraine during recent months. These have included hunger strikes by both sides, arrests, and protest marches resulting from the handing over of churches--most recently used by the Orthodox --to Ukrainian Catholics. http://www.georgefox.edu/academics/undergrad/departments/soc-swk/ree/Lefevere_Orthodox_articles_previous.pdf

In Ukraine, Pope Tries to Heal Rift With Orthodox Church

By ALESSANDRA STANLEY

Published: June 24, 2001 Setting aside objections from the Orthodox church that broke with Rome a millennium ago, John Paul II made his first visit to Ukraine today and tried to placate his unwilling hosts.

''I wish to assure them that I have not come here with the intention of proselytizing,'' the pope said during a formal airport arrival ceremony that no Orthodox religious leaders attended.

The pope urged both churches to ''ask forgiveness'' of each other and not to let past errors hinder ''mutual knowledge.''

Metropolitan Vladimir, who heads the largest Ukrainian Orthodox church, one that is subordinate to Moscow, managed to be out of town today to avoid any chance of meeting the pope..http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/24/world/in-ukraine-pope-tries-to-heal-rift-with-orthodox-church.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/24/world/in-ukraine-pope-tries-to-heal-rift-with-orthodox-church.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

September 13, 2011 (Reuters) – A senior leader of the Russian Orthodox Church on Monday called on the Vatican to do more to resolve outstanding disputes so that a meeting between Pope Benedict and the Russian Patriarch could take place.
In an exclusive interview with Reuters, Russian Orthodox Metropolitan (Archbishop) Hilarion, urged the Vatican to show “some signs” of readiness to resolve a decades-long conflict between Orthodox and Catholics in Ukraine that has been blocking a meeting of the two world religious leaders.
An unprecedented meeting between Benedict and Patriarch Kirill could begin to heal the 1,000-year-old rift between the Western and Eastern branches of Christianity, which split in the Great Schism of 1054. — http://palamas.info/russian-orthodox-leader-urges-vatican-to-resolve-dispute-and-pave-way-for-summit/

424 posted on 06/09/2012 4:46:50 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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