***That was never stated otherwise or made a point of contention***
Your post commented on the “shortness” of my list and you added others. I just pointed out that the ones you added were developed from the ones I listed.
That is the way the theology and doctrines of the Church are developed. The doctrines don’t change, or contradict, they deepen through centuries of study and prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit.
I haven’t heard or yet seen an argument against Catholicism that hasn’t be raised before and answered before, even if in a rudimentary way.
But the continuing dissent serves as opportunity to further define or clarify or deepen the Church’s understanding of Scripture and theology.
Catholics are not automatons or robots or mindless boobs, some do in fact dissent and the Church tries to teach them and also learn from them.
Your counter list was irrelevant (except that it illustrated the variance that exists as to which teachings are infallible), as i was not precisely dealing with infallible teachings, but things RCs could disagree on.
The doctrines don’t change, or contradict..
Of course they cannot, as Rome can autocratically decide what is a contradiction, while again it has not always made it clear whether a teaching is infallible (if she did you could provide an infallible list of all such), and often to varying degrees what they as well as non-infallible teachings (presuming you have them rightly separated) mean. Thus the different understandings of how Prots may be saved according to extra Ecclesiam nulla salus and Lumen Gentium. Etc.
I was not suggesting that, as the diverse variety of Roman Catholics and countless societies and fraternals, as well the liberty they have to interpret the Bible to support Rome testify otherwise, yet infallible teachings do call for full assent of faith (or for firm and definitive assent for level 2 infallible teachings, as some divide them)
And as concerns non-infallible teaching (there is more than one level) on faith or morals:
Can. 752. “While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.” — http://www.ewtn.com/library/canonlaw/adtucans.htm
And also what level a teaching falls under (and thus how many infallible decrees there are), and whether laity can dissent or how much from non-infallible teachings such as encyclicals (or parts thereof), and how, and what degree of assurance the stamps provide, are open to interpretation.
..the definitions of dogmatic facts demand real internal assent; though about the nature of the assent and its relation to faith theologians are not unanimous. Some theologians hold that definitions of dogmatic facts, and especially of dogmatic facts in the wider acceptation of the term, are believed by Divine faith...http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05092a.htm
Regarding articles of faith
Catholic Encyclopedia: Not every revealed truth is an article of faith, nor are theologians agreed on what constitutes any truth an article of faith. Some would limit these articles to the contents of the Apostles' Creed. Others say that every truth defined by the Church, or in any other manner explicitly proposed for our belief, is an article of faith. De Lugo describes them as the principal or primary truths which are the basis of other revealed truths or principles. In the Catechism of the Council of Trent (p. 1, c. 1, q. 4), the truths of the Apostles' Creed are called "articles" by a sort of simile frequently used by our forefathers; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01755d.htm
Despite the polemical rejection by Roman Catholic apologist of human reasoning to gain assurance of Truth by prayerfully examining evidence, the Roman Catholic himself is allowed to do so in making a (fallible human) decision to submit to Rome, and thus give implicit assent of faith to her infallible decrees.
And approved Catholic teaching (on one hand) contends that he needs not examine the warrant for Catholic teaching in order to see whether submission is warranted, or engage in objective seeking of truth if Rome has provided it.
► "Once he does so [enters the Roman church], he has no further use for his reason. He enters the Church, an edifice illumined by the superior light of revelation and faith. He can leave reason, like a lantern, at the door.
Therein he will learn many other truths that he never could have found out with reason alone, truths superior, but not contrary, to reason. These truths he can never repudiate without sinning against reason, first, because reason brought him to this pass where he must believe without the immediate help of reason.” — CHAPTER XIX.
"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. This places the Catholic in a position whereby he must stand aloof from all manner of doctrinal teaching other than that delivered by his Church through her accredited ministers."
“The reason of this stand of his is that, for him, there can be no two sides to a question which for him is settled; for him, there is no seeking after the truth: he possesses it in its fulness, as far as God and religion are concerned. His Church gives him all there is to be had; all else is counterfeit...
Holding to Catholic principles how can he do otherwise? How can he consistently seek after truth when he is convinced that he holds it? Who else can teach him religious truth when he believes that an infallible Church gives him God's word and interprets it in the true and only sense? — (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York ; http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18438/18438-h/18438-h.htm)
► "The use of private judgment, on the other hand, in the sense of an inquiry into the 'motives of credibility,' and a study of the evidences for the Faith, to enable you to find out which is the one Church founded by Jesus Christ -- this is permissible, and not only permissible, but strictly necessary for all outside the Fold who wish to save their souls. But mark well: having once found the true Church, private judgment of this kind ceases; having discovered the authority established by God, you must submit to it at once. There is no need of further search for the doctrines contained in the Christian Gospel, for the Church brings them all with her and will teach you them all. You have sought for the Teacher sent by God, and you have secured him; what need of further speculation?
"Your private judgment has led you into the Palace of Truth, and it leaves you there, for its task is done; the mind is at rest, the soul is satisfied, the whole being reposes in the enjoyment of Truth itself, who can neither deceive nor be deceived....
“All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.”
“...outside the pale of Rome there is not a scrap of additional truth of Revelation to be found.”
“He willingly submits his judgment on questions the most momentous that can occupy the mind of man-----questions of religion-----to an authority located in Rome.”
“Absolute, immediate, and unfaltering submission to the teaching of God's Church on matters of faith and morals-----this is what all must give..”
“The Vicar of Christ is the Vicar of God; to us the voice of the Pope is the voice of God. This, too, is why Catholics would never dream of calling in question the utterance of a priest in expounding Christian doctrine according to the teaching of the Church;”
“He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips.”
“So if God [via Rome] declares that the Blessed Virgin was conceived Immaculate, or that there is a Purgatory, or that the Holy Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, shall we say, "I am not sure about that. I must examine it for myself; I must see whether it is true, whether it is Scriptural?"
“..our act of confidence and of blind obedience is highly honoring to Almighty God,..”
—“Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 ); http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/faith2-10.htm]
Nor does assurance for doctrines of Rome rest upon the weight of Scriptural warrant, but upon the premise of the assured infallibility of Rome, which she has infallibly defined herself to have, when speaking according to her infallibly defined scope and subject-based criteria.
The following statement by Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating regarding the teaching of the Assumption of Mary is an illustration of this very point.
►“Still, fundamentalists ask, where is the proof from Scripture? Strictly, there is none. It was the Catholic Church that was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations and to teach them infallibly. The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275.
► VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906: It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that with the pastoral body only rests the necessary right and authority for promoting the end of the society and directing all its members towards that end; the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors.
► The church is infallible...the church, as a visible, organized society, is the immediate recipient of a certain divine revelation, and the medium of it transmission. This divine revelation must be accepted and believed with a firm assent, excluding all doubt, by each individual....Each individual must receive the faith and the law from the church, of which he is a member by baptism, with unquestioning submission of the intellect and the will. Catholic world, Volume 13, bBy Paulist Fathers, p. 580
► “Divine authority requires absolute obedience...As Adam fell away and dragged with him the whole human race by a sin of disobedience, so man must return to God through absolute obedience to the Divine authority vested in the church.” This Is the Faith, by Francis J. Ripley, p. 121. http://books.google.com/books?id=GFaVi8blR2IC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=absolute+obedience+required+by+catholic+church&source=bl&ots=Hkpo6rzsZD&sig=k_LFETgavPGDr4578g7UhkQd3Ys&hl=en&ei=DmHOTunGGuHt0gGF0ZDxDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=absolute%20obedience%20required%20by%20catholic%20church&f=false
► “We now declare and expressly enjoin that all without exception are bound by an obligation of conscience to submit to the decisions of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, whether already issued or to be issued hereafter, exactly as to the decrees of the Sacred Congregations which are no matters of doctrine and approved by the Pope; nor can anyone who by word or writing attacks the said decrees avoid the note both of disobedience and rashness or be therefore without grave fault. Praestantia Scripturae, Pope St.Pius X [http://catholicfaithdefenders.com/genesis-myth-or-historical.html]
For those in Catholic religious orders men such as Alphonsus De Liguori believed in implicit assent to superiors:
► St. Ignatius once said that should the Pope command him to undertake a voyage by sea in a ship without a mast, without oars or sails, he would blindly obey the precept. And when he was told that it would be imprudent to expose his life to danger, he answered that
prudence is necessary in Superiors; but in subjects the perfection of prudence is to obey without prudence. This doctrine is conformable to Holy Scripture: Behold, says the Lord, as clay is in the potter s hands.' Religious must leave themselves in the hands of the Superior to be moulded as she wills. — St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p. 68 http://wallmell.webs.com/LiguoriTrueSpouseChristVol1.pdf
► "Obey blindly , that is, without asking reasons. Be careful, then, never to examine the directions of your confessor....In a word, keep before your eyes this great rule, that in obeying your confessor you obey God. Force yourself then, to obey him in spite of all fears. And be persuaded that if you are not obedient to him it will be impossible for you to go on well; but if you obey him you are secure. But you say, if I am damned in consequence of obeying my confessor, who will rescue me from hell? What you say is impossible." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p 352, Benziger Brothers, NY
On the other hand,
►Donum Veritatis allows that even if "not habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments," "some Magisterial documents might not be free from all deficiencies," and withholding assent is allowed for a theologian (privately, with submissive teachable spirit) "who might have serious difficulties, for reasons which appear to him wellfounded, in accepting a non-irreformable magisterial teaching."
In so doing it makes a distinction between dissent as in public opposition to the Magisterium of the Church and the situation of conscientious personal difficulties with teaching, and asserts that the Church has always held that "nobody is to be forced to embrace the faith against his will," while the Virgin Mary's "immediate and unhesitating assent of faith to the Word of God" is set forth as the example to follow in submitting to Catholic teaching. — http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19900524_theologian-vocation_en.html
► Thomas Aquinas:"Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God, therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things. - St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church - Summa Theoligica II-IIQ. 104 http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/obediance.htm
► Religious obedience, therefore, does not involve that extinction of all individuality, so often alleged against convents and the Church; nor is it unlimited, for it is not possible either physically or morally that a man should give himself up absolutely to the guidance of another. — Catholic Encyclopedia>Religious Obedience; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11182a.htm
►Roman Catholic lay theologian Ronald L. Conte Jr.
...some dissent from non-infallible teachings is faithful dissent. Ordinary teachings allow for the possibility of error and so ordinary assent allows for the possibility of dissent. However, this dissent must be limited in extent, just as the fallibility is limited in extent. http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/general-magisterium.htm
► ...internal assent is obligatory only on those who can give it consistently with the claims of objective truth on their conscience — this conscience, it is assumed, being directed by a spirit of generous loyalty to genuine Catholic principles. — Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
► Ratzinger: Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one's own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. Conscience confronts [the individual] with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church" (Pope Benedict XVI [then Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger], Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II, ed. Vorgrimler, 1968, on Gaudium et spes, part 1,chapter 1.)
► CCC 1790: “A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. " Catechism of the Catholic Church; http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm)
Aquinas, despite his willingness to have heretics executed, is understood as teaching that
“it is always a sin to violate conscience, even when conscience is in error,[83] and even when it contradicts the command of a bishop.”[84] www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/d/x/dxd22/Aquinas.htm#_edn84
► Anyone upon whom the ecclesiastical authority, in ignorance of the true facts, imposes a demand that offends against his clear conscience, should perish in excommunication rather than violate his conscience. (Thomas Aquinas, “IV Sentences,” discourse 38, question 2, article 4, quoted in Richard P. McBrien, Catholicism. Minneapolis: Winston Press, 1980 p.1003)
► “...it does not seem possible that anyone could evade sin if his conscience in whatever way it might err judges something to be the precept of God, whether it be a matter of intrinsic evil or matters of indifference, and decides to the contrary while he still has that conscience. Taken as such, he wills not to observe the law of God, and thus sins mortally.” [83] — Disputed Questions on Truth, Question 17, article 4, response, McInerny, Thomas Aquinas: Selected Writings, p. 233.