ok, i’m ready for my test:
baptism is the sacrament where one receives the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit and is placed in Christ.
i don’t know what an “ordinance” is and i am not sure why you have “church” in quotation marks. The Church received AUTHORITY from Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 28 to make disciples of all nations by TEACHING and BAPTIZING. Baptism does involve water.
i don’t claim baptism saves, the Holy Spirit tells us it does in 1 Peter 3:21. We either believe the Scriptures or we don’t.
if a person is baptized they are in Christ, therefore if they died they are saved. the Scriptures are clear that one can be in Christ and thru sin, lose their salvation. The Church has never taught “once saved, always saved” in 2,000 years. that is another 16th century invention.
faith is required for baptism as we see in Acts 8. if an adult is seeking baptism, they must express faith in Jesus Christ before baptism, if it a baby or child being baptized, the parents must express faith before the baptism.
Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and life, He is our salvation. We must be in Christ to be saved, outside of Christ there is no salvation. The Scriptures are clear, the only way into Christ is thru baptism. It is how we put on Christ and how our sins are forgiven. Faith is wonderful, good works are wonderful, but we are saved by grace.
The Scriptures are clear baptism is by the Holy Spirit, using the Church as the means of grace. If someone hears the Gospel, believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who became man to die for our sins and reconcile us to the Father and wishes to have their sins forgiven in baptism, this can only happen if the Holy Spirit draws that person. If the Holy Spirit starts a good work in you, He is faithful to complete, therefore the Church teaches such a person is saved. This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than someone who rejects baptismal regeneration and wishes to be in Christ without being BAPTIZED into Christ. The former is Biblical and historical Christianity, the latter is a false 16th century doctrine invented by the devil to attack the Church and the unity of the Body of Christ.
The Scriptures don’t answer your baby question, so i hesitate to speculate.
i think i answered all your questions, so could you answer mine:
why did Jesus COMMAND baptism?
where does the Bible say baptism is symbolic?
where does the Bible say baptism is a first act of obedience?
where does the Bible say baptism is an outward sign of what has happened inwardly already?
why do Baptists teach there are two baptisms ( Spirit and water ), when Paul tells us in Ephesians there is only ONE baptism?
finally, how can you believe NO ONE understood baptism from 95ad til the 16th century, where was the Holy Spirit for these 1,500 years?
When you say the word "baptism", what specifically are you talking about?
baptism is the sacrament where one receives the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit and is placed in Christ.
Okay, but there is a difference in "Baptism" and "Water Baptism". That you continue to assert they mean the same thing, demonstrates ignorance or stubborn resistance to acknowledging what Scripture actually DOES say.
Do you mean the ordinance of baptism performed by the "church" that includes the use of water?
i don’t know what an “ordinance” is and i am not sure why you have “church” in quotation marks. The Church received AUTHORITY from Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 28 to make disciples of all nations by TEACHING and BAPTIZING. Baptism does involve water.
An "ordinance" simply means an authoritative rule or law, a decree or command. That you say you are not sure what it is, is either because you want to insist upon your own religion's semantics or obtuseness. I'm pretty sure you DO know what the word means. Scripture uses the word quite a bit. For example, in Leviticus 3:17, the LORD says, “This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood.” Paul told the Corinthians in I Cor. 11:2, "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." So, we know that there were ordinances of God as well as those passed on to Christians by the Apostles. Water Baptism, then was an ordinance. The Roman Catholic Church changed this to a "sacrament", or a "rite", used to confer grace upon the one participating in the rite. It is interesting that the term "sacrament" is used to mean "a visible sign of an inward grace". By that, we know that the rite of water baptism then is an outward, visible sign of what is spiritual. Ringing a bell?
If you are speaking of the specific act of a water baptism performed by the "church", then is it THAT act, that ordinance, that you claim "saves"?
i don’t claim baptism saves, the Holy Spirit tells us it does in 1 Peter 3:21. We either believe the Scriptures or we don’t.
Yet, you are insisting over and over again across the threads, no matter what the subject is, that water baptism is what actually does the "saving". You equate this "sacrament" to every time the word "baptism" is used in Scripture no matter the context even when the verse clearly is NOT speaking of water baptism. So, yes, you do claim - without Scriptural warrant - that, in your opinion, water baptism DOES save. You say that it is the act, itself, of being water baptized by a specific formula and by a specific person that saves rather than, as Scripture states, the faith behind the act that saves us.
Consequentially, if a person is baptized in water by the "church", is that person "saved"?
if a person is baptized they are in Christ, therefore if they died they are saved. the Scriptures are clear that one can be in Christ and thru sin, lose their salvation. The Church has never taught “once saved, always saved” in 2,000 years. that is another 16th century invention.
Not really true at all but your contention is just another example of how Rome changed the understanding of the doctrine of justification by grace apart from works and which the Reformers sought to restore. Those who are "in Christ" have been redeemed by His blood and we are kept by that same grace acquired by faith in Christ. We are not saved by good works so we are not kept saved by good works either. It is truly amazing that so many fail to see that especially as they, with a straight face, claim to be saved by grace but then insist staying saved is by works.
What place does personal faith have in this act?
faith is required for baptism as we see in Acts 8. if an adult is seeking baptism, they must express faith in Jesus Christ before baptism, if it a baby or child being baptized, the parents must express faith before the baptism. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and life, He is our salvation. We must be in Christ to be saved, outside of Christ there is no salvation. The Scriptures are clear, the only way into Christ is thru baptism. It is how we put on Christ and how our sins are forgiven. Faith is wonderful, good works are wonderful, but we are saved by grace.
There is no such thing as "Proxy Faith". A parent cannot have faith FOR the child and this is proved repeatedly in the vast number of baptized babies that do NOT go on to become Christians in their own personal faith. Each person must make that decision for Christ.
Finally, is it the act itself of baptism or the faith of the person being baptized that saves that person?
The Scriptures are clear baptism is by the Holy Spirit, using the Church as the means of grace. If someone hears the Gospel, believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who became man to die for our sins and reconcile us to the Father and wishes to have their sins forgiven in baptism, this can only happen if the Holy Spirit draws that person. If the Holy Spirit starts a good work in you, He is faithful to complete, therefore the Church teaches such a person is saved. This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than someone who rejects baptismal regeneration and wishes to be in Christ without being BAPTIZED into Christ. The former is Biblical and historical Christianity, the latter is a false 16th century doctrine invented by the devil to attack the Church and the unity of the Body of Christ.
Another example of saying something with absolutely NO intention of following through on what is being said. Your religion teaches that NO person can have assurance of being saved outside of them being "special" and having had a vision or being especially pious and saint-like. My point is that to be saved we must come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, believing on Him and receiving God's grace of eternal life through faith. Being "baptized into Christ" is NOT the essential act of water baptism but happens when the gift of God is received by faith. THAT is when the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens. As I Peter 3:21 says, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Water baptism is symbolic, as ALL rites or sacraments are, and it is NOT the rite that affects the spiritual reality.
And, lastly, in anticipation of your answer to the last question, if both faith AND the act of baptism are necessary to "save" a person, then what happens if that person dies after his profession of faith and before his participation in the act of baptism? Is he STILL saved?
You didn't answer this question.
And I add, what happens to babies who die without baptism?
The Scriptures don’t answer your baby question, so i hesitate to speculate.
Yet, your religion baptizes babies! This question SHOULD be easy to answer, since we KNOW that God is merciful and He will not send an innocent person to hell just because he/she wasn't baptized in the Catholic Church. This is contrary to Aquinas, who insisted unbaptized babies went to hell (nice, huh?). The very idea of this proves the rule, God does NOT make water baptism a requirement for salvation. It is based upon faith and faith alone and one who is incapable of exercising faith through no fault of their own, ARE saved through the mercy and grace of God.
I'll pass on answering your redundant questions. You have proved more than a few times that no matter what answer is provided, you refuse to hear the truth. I'll not waste my or your time doing so again.