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To: metmom

“Catholicism is the epitome of legalism.

Do this. Don’t do that.

You have to be baptized to be saved, but that doesn’t quite do it.

You also have to take communion to be saved, except that that isn’t enough either.

You have to go to confession to be eligible to take communion.

In addition, to be eligible for communion, you also have to do the penance they require of you to show how sorry you are for your sins.

And then communion doesn’t quite do it either. You have to do all kinds of charitable works and give money.

But wait a minute, even after jumping through all those hoops, you STILL DON’T KNOW whether you’re going to make it or not. You won’t find out until you get there and have your good works weighed against the bad and see which you have more of.”

~ ~ ~

The reason for these, as stated “legalisms”, the quote is mainly talking about the Sacraments, all of them instituted by God. In the 7 Sacraments you can be assured of God’s grace.

God’s grace helps you to be good. God’s grace, His presence in your soul is needed to get to Heaven. The question below, a help to simply explain the Sacraments.

* How would Jesus provide for the flow of grace to individual souls? *

Would the whole thing be invisible?
Would God simply give to each person of good will a silent inner conviction of being saved?
Each time that we felt the need of divine help, would we simply ask for it and immediately feel welling up within us a great surge of spiritual strength?

Consistent with how we are made God could have done it that way, of course. But God chose to be consistent. He chose to deal with man, in this matter of grace, in the same manner in which He had made man—through a union of the MATERIAL and the SPIRITUAL, of body and of soul.

The grace itself would be invisible, as by its nature it must be. But the grace would come to us through the visible things that we deal with daily.

And so God took the common things from the world about us—objects which we could taste and touch and feel, words that we could hear and gestures that we could understand—and made these the carriers of His grace.

A Sacrament is an ~ outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.


835 posted on 05/30/2012 3:46:30 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio

God freely lavishes His grace on us. There’s no Scripture that says that grace is dispensed in packets called sacraments.


841 posted on 05/30/2012 4:10:48 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: stpio; metmom
>>Would the whole thing be invisible?<<

Yes

>>Would God simply give to each person of good will a silent inner conviction of being saved?<<

Yes. The peace that passes all understanding.

>>Each time that we felt the need of divine help, would we simply ask for it and immediately feel welling up within us a great surge of spiritual strength?<<

Yes

>>A Sacrament is an ~ outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.<<

Nonsense. A sacrament is an outward symbolism of something that has already happened.

854 posted on 05/30/2012 7:11:58 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: stpio; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
* How would Jesus provide for the flow of grace to individual souls? *

Through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

Would the whole thing be invisible?

Yes. Where does Scripture state that receiving grace imparted to our lives visible. And no, it would not be invisible in a sense because the work of grace in our lives results in changes in the outward actions caused by the change in the inward attitude.

Would God simply give to each person of good will a silent inner conviction of being saved?

No. Good will has nothing to do with it because salvation is not by works or *sincere* or having a good heart. There are lots of nice people who aren't really saved because they don't confess Jesus as Lord. I've seen plenty of people who are all nicey-nice..... until you mention Jesus, and then watch the meltdown begin.

It's only His children to whom He gives the silent , inner conviction of being saved.

Each time that we felt the need of divine help, would we simply ask for it and immediately feel welling up within us a great surge of spiritual strength?

Absolutely

Luke 11:5-13 5 And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, 6 for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’?

8 I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs. 9 And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

11 What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; 12 or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.

John 1:14-17 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 ( John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Romans 3:21-30 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Romans 5:12-21 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

Ephesians 1:7-8 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight

Hebrews 4:15-16 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.

James 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”


897 posted on 05/30/2012 11:54:54 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: stpio
The grace itself would be invisible, as by its nature it must be. But the grace would come to us through the visible things that we deal with daily.

How do you know that?

Where did God tell us that?

Chapter and verse?

898 posted on 05/30/2012 11:59:26 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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