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To: stpio; metmom; boatbums
>>Mary is sinless, she was born without Original Sin. She committed no sin during her entire life.<<

What utter nonsense. Putting Mary on a par with Christ is blasphemy. Jesus was the only sinless human to ever live on this earth. She was a sinner and needed a savior just as every other human that has ever lived since Adam other than Christ.

The phrase "full of grace" in Greek is "plaras karitos" and it occurs in only two places in the New Testament; neither one is in reference to Mary.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth,

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people,

In Luke 1:28 the phrase used is “chair kecharitōmenē” which is “greetings favored one”.

The Nestle Aland 26th edition, Greek New Testament Interlinear - "having gone into her he said rejoice one having been favored, the master is with you."

The NRSV English Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament - And he came to her and said, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."

American Standard Version - "And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee."

King James Version- "And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

New American Standard Bible - "And coming in, he said to her, Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.

International Standard Version - '"The angel'' came to her and said, “'Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you!"

The Latin Vulgate is the Latin translation of the Bible done by St. Jerome in the fourth century. He made the error of using "ave gratia plena” "Hail full of grace.” From which the current English Catholic translation was taken. The RCC has used the erroneous Latin translation and not used the original Greek. The entire doctrine concerning Mary is based on an error by St. Jerome when he translated from Greek to Latin.

The archangels greeting to Mary was NOT “Hail full of grace” but “hail highly favored”. Only Jesus and Stephen were referred to as "plaras karitos" or “full of grace and we know Stephen was not without sin.

The entire doctrine of Mary being without sin is based on error and putting her on an equal with Christ as sinless is blasphemy.

800 posted on 05/30/2012 5:43:36 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
The entire doctrine of Mary being without sin is based on error and putting her on an equal with Christ as sinless is blasphemy.

Forgive us if we aren't too distressed by charges of blasphemy from a heretic. Particularly one that misrepresents Catholic teachings by claiming the Church makes her "equal" with Christ.

807 posted on 05/30/2012 6:43:08 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: CynicalBear
Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

The only people who need saviors are sinners and the only people who know they need a savior are those who know they are sinners.

Her song here is her own tacit admission of her own sinfulness.

If she had been born without sin and committed no sin during her life, then she would not need a savior.

And if God could cause her to be conceived without sin and live without sin, then He could do it for anyone and everyone. SO why didn't He. Why does He then let the world go through what it's been through when He could likewise protect all of us?

What kind of God who could do that for someone would let the world go to hell in a handbasket and allow all the sin and suffering that it brings when He has the power to prevent it, as He did with Mary?

Of course, there's also the issue that if Mary really were born sinless and remained sinless her entire life, then when she called God her savior, she lied.

Sinless people don't need to be saved, they already are (would be).

There's just no way that works.

817 posted on 05/30/2012 1:10:00 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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