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To: spunkets
"That contradicts Genesis 1:19 [1:27].

I'm sure that you have a really good point you are trying to make, but its too late at the end of a rough week for me to see what it is. Forgive me if I go off on a tangent.

As my screen name would indicate I am familiar with the concept of natural law and the basic universal knowledge of the existence of God and the difference between right and wrong that is essentially buried within our human DNA. The capacity for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding that I spoke of and the potential for a lack of the gifts is not an absolute that would render a person human or something less than human. That said, every sentient person possesses some level of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of the world sufficient to survive.

My point is that spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit. In Isaiah 11:2-3 the Hebrew Bible lists six gifts and the Catholic (Septuagint) lists seven. These are (1) wisdom, (2) understanding, (3) counsel, (4) fortitude, (5) knowledge, (6) piety, and (7) fear of the Lord.

St. Paul tells us that although all in the Spirit receive gifts not all receive all of the gifts;

"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

So my question remains that if one is not blessed with the gift of knowledge and wisdom to whom should they turn for the correct interpretation of Scripture and how are they to know if the one they are turning to has the gift?

Peace be with you.

414 posted on 05/25/2012 2:54:49 PM PDT by Natural Law ("AMOR VINCIT OMNIA")
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To: Natural Law
"My point is that spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit. In Isaiah 11:2-3 the Hebrew Bible lists six gifts and the Catholic (Septuagint) lists seven. These are (1) wisdom, (2) understanding, (3) counsel, (4) fortitude, (5) knowledge, (6) piety, and (7) fear of the Lord."

Isaiah 11:2-3 refers to Jesus. His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. That's why those elements of Spirit are upon Him. They are not gifts; they are His own work.

Fear of the Lord is taught. Psalm 34:11 "Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the Lord." Jesus taught them. Isaiah 53:13, "All your children will be taught by the Lord, and great will be their peace." The things you listed are the resultants of a rational judgment and decision making process. They are not gifts in and of themselves. Being taught what is necesssary to know as input into the rational process does not equate with being given the results.

"St. Paul tells us that although all in the Spirit receive gifts not all receive all of the gifts; "...All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

Luke 8:16-18 “No one lights a lamp and hides it in a clay jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, they put it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. Therefore consider carefully how you listen.(remember the prior verses in the Parable of the sower. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.") Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they think they have will be taken from them.” God does not do anyone's thinking for them; nor does He decide which person's thoughts and decisions will be correct.

"So my question remains that if one is not blessed with the gift of knowledge and wisdom to whom should they turn for the correct interpretation of Scripture and how are they to know if the one they are turning to has the gift?

The ability to think is the gift. Whether one puts in the effort to know the facts, or evidence presented, heard, or read, and the effort to understand them depends on that individual's choice, not on any decision God makes. That applies in all cases. Correctness depends on the evidence presented, just as truth stands on the evidence.

Correctness and truth are not determined by the application of non-logical operators such as authority, or democracracy, or any claims of special gifts, powers, or inside info. If one wants to know the truth, they must consider the evidence that's available to anyone, not any extraneous, irrelevant facts, or processes.

No one is, or was ever guaranteed an oracle of truth. Just as God is His own right hand man, so to is any man. That is inherent in the image. Faith is belief in what someone says. In order to have faith, one must consider the evidence and make decisions.

931 posted on 05/31/2012 1:40:22 PM PDT by spunkets
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