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To: metmom
"Which part????"

With each post of yours I read there is less and less evidence that you were ever Catholic. At best you were nominally Catholic. Catholicism has always referred to the Eucharist as the Host. This was especially true when you were allegedly Catholic. What do you think "host" means in plain, literal English? It is a shame that you apparently rejected the faith because you didn't acquire a proper understanding of it. There is more integrity in a person who says "I fully understand the issue and reject or disagree" than with a person who says "I haven't got a clue, I don't care to know, so don't bother me with the facts".

I'll ask you the question again; "Which part, the divine substance or the physical properties of the specific species?"

If you choose to be obtuse and to obfuscate to mask your inability or unwillingness to answer a tough but relevant question that is your prerogative. Just don't waste my time with mini-lectures and questions while doing so. Dialog is a bi-directional communication, not a hostile interrogation in which you get to ask all of the questions and answer none.

May you grow in Grace and Wisdom.

1,108 posted on 06/03/2012 9:54:46 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P41.HTM

1375 It is by the conversion of the bread and wine into Christ's body and blood that Christ becomes present in this sacrament. the Church Fathers strongly affirmed the faith of the Church in the efficacy of the Word of Christ and of the action of the Holy Spirit to bring about this conversion. Thus St. John Chrysostom declares: It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. the priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God's. This is my body, he says. This word transforms the things offered.202

and St. Ambrose says about this conversion:

Be convinced that this is not what nature has formed, but what the blessing has consecrated. the power of the blessing prevails over that of nature, because by the blessing nature itself is changed.... Could not Christ's word, which can make from nothing what did not exist, change existing things into what they were not before? It is no less a feat to give things their original nature than to change their nature.203

1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."204

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. "The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession."206

1381 "That in this sacrament are the true Body of Christ and his true Blood is something that 'cannot be apprehended by the senses,' says St. Thomas, 'but only by faith, which relies on divine authority.' For this reason, in a commentary on Luke 22:19 ('This is my body which is given for you.'), St. Cyril says: 'Do not doubt whether this is true, but rather receive the words of the Savior in faith, for since he is the truth, he cannot lie.'"210

Godhead here in hiding, whom I do adore
Masked by these bare shadows, shape and nothing more,
See, Lord, at thy service low lies here a heart
Lost, all lost in wonder at the God thou art.

Seeing, touching, tasting are in thee deceived;
How says trusty hearing? that shall be believed;
What God's Son has told me, take for truth I do;
Truth himself speaks truly or there's nothing true.211

Aside from the worst poetry ever composed, there's so much else wrong with it that one hardly knows where to start.

*worship* the eucharist, eh?

Exodus 20:4-6 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

1,118 posted on 06/03/2012 12:50:01 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Natural Law; metmom
Catholicism has always referred to the Eucharist as the Host.

What catholicsm calls anything means nothing and that isn't the issue . Now back to you had to eat His body and blood. Catholics are the ones who demand that that passage be taken literally.

Does Jesus say 'ouch' when you eat HIM? Either it is literal or it isn't. Meaning it one way and not the other is being double minded.

James 1:7,8 "That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord, their loyalty is divided between God and the world, and they are unstable in everything they do".

There is more integrity in a person who says "I fully understand the issue and reject or disagree" than with a person who says "I haven't got a clue, I don't care to know, so don't bother me with the facts".

Where is your INTEGRITY? Aren't you disagreeing when we say Jesus DIDN'T mean literal!!! And it's NOT rocket science to know that. But THE TRUTH has no place when one is submitted to the RCC and it's man made teachings.

GOD'S WORD IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY - submit to GOD ALONE or submit to man. Catholicism is submitting to man.

1,123 posted on 06/03/2012 1:22:04 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Natural Law; presently no screen name; bkaycee
Dialog is a bi-directional communication, not a hostile interrogation in which you get to ask all of the questions and answer none.

Then why don't you answer some for a change?

The CCC states that the host becomes the literal flesh and blood of Christ.

Is that true?

Do you agree?

If so, then why isn't the change detectable? Why is the host still made out of flour?

And why has the Catholic church historically served only the bread to the communicants. in direct disobedience to the Lord's command to take the bread and the cup?

And how about an honest answer instead of Catholic double-speak?

1,126 posted on 06/03/2012 1:29:36 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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