My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (John 10:27-30)
I knew as soon as I read those words of Jesus that I was in the wrong church. I never had any desire to go back but rejoice that there are many local Christian churches that teach the true gospel and I am free to fellowship where ever the Lord leads me.
ping for later
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Lord Jesus,
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You said, “I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
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Touch the hearts of all Christians—and everyone that the Father draws unto Himself—that we may always and everywhere love one another. And in love, humbly seek to fulfill Your prayer to the Father, “That they all may be one.”
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Amen.
They will say that these are all divorced people ..LOL
I was just pinged to this (thanks MM), and see that you met the typical RC responses, that,
1. That of rejecting the overall reliability of survey results which all show Catholics as more liberal than evangelicals, and more becoming evangelicals, based upon the premise that they have it in for Catholicism, while favoring evangelicals (like George Bush or Sarah Palin), which is absurd except to those who imagine Catholics are more conservative.
Or that nothing impugns Rome can be allowed if it comes from an "anti-Catholic" source, which anyone who impugns and does not support Rome, is, but which is the genesis fallacy, and contra Mt. 23:2.
And the fact is that every poll i have every come across on the subject across many years shows that Catholics are more liberal than evangelicals, and that more RCs become evangelicals than swim the Tiber the other direction.
Not that the MSM is not anti-Christ, but that does not disallow anything they say, and i have gone to lengths in threads to show that these stats are consistent.
2. That the liberals and those who leave Rome were only CINOS, and cannot be counted as Catholics.
However, as i also said (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2885062/posts?page=256#256) in the thread which proved this one, while these may be excluded by some, until Rome publicly excommunicates men like Ted Kennedy or otherwise treats known offenders as as such, and effectually requires repentance (so they become the small minority which TCs are, instead of being the majority), rather than counting and treating them as members in life (and in stats) and in death, then we must also count them as members, and as representing the faith that Rome most effectually conveys, and what mostly constitutes her OTC.
Indeed, as these make up the vast majority of Catholics, then the (so-called) one true Church© of Rome would be mostly full of damned souls, few of which see any real discipline. (Ted had Masses said at his own house.)
3. The Catholic church is growing and S. Baptists, etc., are shrinking.
The former is barely true, and is misleading, as it depends upon the year and any RC growth is overall minimal, and if wasn't not for immigrant Latin Catholics, the percent of Catholics in America would be decreasing, and in fact she loses more than many others.
Moreover, while the numbers of all "Christians" are growing due to the increase in population, but not as a percentage, and both Catholics and Protestants are decreasing as a percentage, with Islam (about 40% by immigration) , Mormons (who never remove exmormons unless requested or excommunicated), and "Nones being the fastest growing percentage.
4. That those who leave for evangelical churches do so because they did or want to get divorced and remarried, or some other doctrine.
However, the the overwhleming testimony of such (and myself) for leaving was due to spiritual deficiency in Catholicism.
See (http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html, from which the below are taken, for more stats on these.
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Though i think more evangelicals do leave now due to the compromise in evangelical churches, for years Catholics have led in declension and in departures compared to evangelicals See more and notes here. My old priest used to exhort us, “sing like Protestants.” |
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As concerns the Latin growth:
Why Do Catholics Become Evangelicals?
Catholicculture.org
In an article entitled, "The Glory and Power of the Gospel," Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa —l; Preacher to the papal household — in a retreat for 1,500 priests and seventy bishops has shockingly described the state of the Catholic Church in Latin America by noting that Catholics there proclaim that, "When we need a labor union we go to our parish priest; when we need the word of God we go to the Protestant pastor," and that, "In Latin America the Catholic Church has made an option for the poor and the poor have opted for the Protestant Churches."1, Ralph Martin too, has noted that, in 1991, Pope John Paul II called a consistory to examine what could only be described as a hemorrhage of the Catholic faithful to Evangelical Protestantism.
The cardinals had a lot to say about the spectacular growth of the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which, in Latin America in particular, are attracting many Catholics. Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo of Managua, Nicaragua, told the Cardinals that a "Protestant explosion" has seen the number of Protestants in Latin America grow from 4 million in 1967 to 30 million in 1985...
A 1986 Gallup Poll revealed that in the preceding 10 years, 5 million Hispanics joined Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, approximately 30 percent of the 17 million Hispanics in the United States. Of these, 64 percent converted to these groups from Catholicism."3 The situation is not limited to Hispanics in or out of the U.S.
The same trend is visible in the United States. American Catholic leaders have also expressed a great concern about the growth of Evangelical and Pentecostal churches in this country, a growth that often comes through Catholics leaving their churches. Here, statistics are hard to come by. Much anecdotal evidence suggests that many members of Pentecostal and independent charismatic churches are former Catholics. This is especially true of regions with a large Catholic population. One researcher who did an informal survey estimates that 30 percent of the 35 million Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the United States are first- or second-generation former Catholics.4 http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7417
The number of Spanish-speaking evangelicals is growing, in Wichita and across the U.S
JOE RODRIGUEZ AND ICESS FERNANDEZ, The Wichita Eagle
When Milca Molina moved to Wichita from Los Angeles nearly 20 years ago, there were two evangelical churches in the city that had a predominantly Spanish-speaking congregation. Today, there are more than 15, according to Molina, who helped start one of them -- Iglesia Cristiana Nueva Jerusalem, 1650 S. Broadway. Molina serves as associate pastor of the church. Her husband is pastor. "We are reaching out to people," Molina said, "and the churches are growing." Take the Molinas' church, for example. Molina and her husband, Azarel, started the church 15 years ago, and it had fewer than 40 members.
The church now has a congregation of about 300 and is planning to soon purchase its first church building. It currently holds its worship services at the former Kansas Blue Print building.The boom among Hispanic evangelical Christians isn't limited to Wichita.Nationwide, there are now about 10 million Hispanic Protestants, according to the recent Hispanic Churches in American Public Life research project. That number has doubled during the past 10 years, according to the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez Jr., founder and president of the Sacramento, Calif.-based National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. The conference represents Hispanic evangelicals in the United States and Puerto Rico.
"This is the Protestant Reformation for Hispanics," Rodriguez said. The growth shouldn't be a surprise.Nationwide, the U.S. Hispanic population grew from 22.4 million in 1990 to an estimated 42.7 million in 2005, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.In Wichita, the population has also increased rapidly. According to 2005 bureau estimates, nearly 51,000 Hispanics lived in Wichita. That number has more than tripled since 1990, according to the bureau. Among all U.S. Hispanics, nearly 70 percent are Catholics. But a report on Hispanics and religion released earlier this year showed that half of Hispanic evangelicals came to the faith from other backgrounds and more than 80 percent of them are former Catholics.
That report -- conducted by the Washington, D.C.-based research groups Pew Hispanic Center and the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life -- said that more than 80 percent of all Hispanic Christian converts cited a "desire for a more direct, personal experience with God" as a reason for their conversion. Few Hispanics -- only 7 percent -- said they left Catholicism because they were dissatisfied with the church's position on certain issues, the report said. http://www.nhclc.org/en/news/number-spanish-speaking-evangelicals-growing-wichita-and-across-us
The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants (Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why)
By Thomas Reese, S.J.
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions.
This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc.
Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated.
People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty....
National Catholic Reporter http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CMcBEBYwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fncronline.org%2Fnews%2Fhidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants&ei=sUi5T_7BOsu16AH0h4nlCg&usg=AFQjCNGNQVTZw0IQ6IxWPzB2VEzHYmvDXQ&sig2=bUhjnUFzYrKwyC7lFj-a3g
Norman L. Geisler responds to why some evangelicals leave for Rome (http://www.normgeisler.com/articles/RomanCatholicism/WhyCatholicsLeave.htm), and i think it is much due to the increasing superficiality in evangelical faith in yielding to the society, and the vain attraction of outward form, but that is not the fault of the faith, but of compromising of it, rather than living by effectual faith, which cause Roman Catholics would also attribute for losses of their faith, which is more reflective of society
If 1/10 of Americans are former Catholics and 1/2 of those that leave become Protestants, then the Protestant Churches must be overflowing with attendees. ????
67“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”
Jesus said he was leaving an example of humility by the foot washing and that it was his example to be followed. So the foot washing never was part of the last supper ceremony as it was the braking of bread and taking the wine that was to be done “in remembrance” of him.
The few times foot washing is mentioned is not in connection with the last supper but the kind and pious acts of faithful widows. (1 Tim. 5:10)
Foot washing is not part of the remembrance or memorial meal.