Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Mary is the mother of Jesus, as she is called by the Holy Spirit when He inspired Luke, John, and Matthew to write it down.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.
John 2:1-3 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
stpio: “Sorry, I can’t do italics, so I’ll use caps.”
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Here, read and learn.
HTML Sandbox 2012
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2827523/posts
To do italics, bold, underline, strikeout, you use these
< > with the appropriate letter inbetween them, leaving no spaces.
For italics, insert an i.
For bold insert a b.
For Underline, a u and for strike out, use an s.
Put that at the beginning of what you want to post. At the end of what you are doing, you have to *close* it with this</ >. The backslash goes before the letter, the same letter you used at the beginning.
So to put “she is the mother of God” you would do < i > she is the mother of God </ i >.
Who is "they" exactly? It wouldn't be an impersonal pronoun used to permit skirting of the rules, would it, or is it just part of some broad based slur used to hide a grasp of the facts? Unless you specify the indefinite singular antecedent I might take it to be about me specifically and I would really hate to allow a simple inability to articulate a cohesive thought to be mistaken for a lack of Christian benignity.
Peace and Blessings.
And thereby it is marked as a false doctrine. What is supposed to be a celebration in remembrance of Christ is now turned into Talmudic word games,
‘Yes, it is one thing but no such characteristics of such can be detected and yes, Jesus was passing around his body before ever he had offered it in heaven, in fact before he had died. How? Welll, he's above and beyond time and sequence, space.’
The word that is used in the original Greek here is kyrios, which is not the same as the Greek word for God, which is theos.
Kyros simply means "having power or authority", which in and of itself is not indicative of deity. Theos, on the other hand, literally means a deity.
As Luke used both of these words when describing the conversation between Elisabeth and Mary. Notice the difference in Luke 1:38 where the Greek word Theos is used illustrating the difference. Luke would have used Theos in Elizabeth’s statement but didn’t which indicates a distinct difference in meaning. If Luke intended to convey the meaning that Mary was the mother of God he would have used Theos but didn’t. Luke made a very distinct difference in word usage as did Elizabeth for a reason.
That's a pretty large indication that Mary was not the Mother of God, as she was not a deity, but rather was the Mother of our Lord after the physical meaning of the word.
In short, she was mortal just as we are mortal and thereby subject to sin just as we are subject to sin.
This does nothing to diminish Christ's deity. It simply reinforces the point of His nature as being fully human and yet also fully God.
The RCC is duping it’s followers into following pagan practices rather than scripture.
I read many posts every day but I’m sure I miss some also. If you believe posters are making a thread “about” you, send me a Freepmail.
“In that Scripture proceeded from the Tradition that preceded it, and that both share the same author, it cannot be in a different or higher class than its antecedent.”
The problem is defining what one means by “Tradition” and how Scripture came to be established as being Divine.
Tradition as the oral form of Scripture before it was written would not be in a different or higher class in essence, but as the supernaturally established Word of God existing in a material expression it judges other claimed revelation.
Besides the fact that only part of Scripture first existed orally, tradition as an oral form of revelation in addition to the Scriptures, is amorphous, existing in a form along with uninspired revelation, without a known end or defined canon, and is supremely susceptible to undetectable corruption, while Scripture is the part of oral tradition that has been established as the Word of God, versus “tares’ which come from the same ground as wheat.
The Church and its Magisterium is a servant of the deposit of faith, not its creator or master.
Not in reality, as making her Tradition (out of the larger field of oral tradition) equal to Scripture is based upon Rome infallibly defining what the deposit of faith consists of and means, both in what revelation is of God and its meaning, thus infallibly defining that she is the assuredly infallible OTC.
Concerning which see my other recent posts relative to this.
How can the common perception of the term 'judaizing' be correct if Yeshua Himself, the Great Teacher, said that we are to do and teach the law (and the prophets... That by the way, implies the entire Tanakh)?
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
80 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition.
Tradition is to be distinguished from the various theological, disciplinary, liturgical or devotional traditions, born in the local churches over time. These are the particular forms, adapted to different places and times, in which the great Tradition is expressed. In the light of Tradition, these traditions can be retained, modified or even abandoned under the guidance of the Church's Magisterium.
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."
Peace be with you
No one disputes the role of the church (small 'c') in the revelation we STILL have from God's breath. But if you really accept that Holy Scripture comes from God as well as being INFALLIBLE, then you must also accept that it is that with or without man's acceptance of it. It is the Truth from God no matter who acknowledges it or rejects it. We already know from Scripture that the natural (unregenerated) man does not receive the things of God nor can he know them, but does that mean it ceases to BE the word of God? No.
There have been many "religious" men and women over the years - including today - who discount the absolute truth of what the Bible says. They claim it is outdated or old fashioned and won't work for today. But I think we both agree that they are wrong because God's truth transcends time - truth is truth. For this reason I contend that Scripture is the authority by which truth claims are measured and not that Scripture is measured by an authority of man's opinions of what is truth. If the Apostle Peter can call his contemporary and fellow Apostle Paul's writings Scripture (2 Peter 3:15,16), then I do not see how it can be correctly asserted that nobody accepted the books of the Bible until the "Church" presented them in a nice, neatly bound volume with an official seal placed in the front three hundred or so years later. I stand by my conviction that the Bible we have today is what God chose to give us and no matter the method He used it would STILL be His word today. The word of our God stands forever.
But what do I do with a tradition like that which says Mary's childhood home was transported by angels from the Holy Land to Europe, landing a couple of times on the way?
And what of a tradition like the bodily assumption of Mary into heaven? Is there an inspired source that support such?
Who can I turn to to verify and put it on an equal footing with the written word?
But what the oral traditions that the disciples shared before any of the N.T. began to be set down in writing?
Even these are secondary to the written word as they became part of it and we have no preservation of those oral traditions as apart from or as a portion of inspired teachings.
“That’s a pretty large indication that Mary was not the Mother of God, as she was not a deity, but rather was the Mother of our Lord after the physical meaning of the word.
In short, she was mortal just as we are mortal and thereby subject to sin just as we are subject to sin.”
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You are confusing the fact Mary is the Mother of God so somehow that makes her divine, it doesn’t.
Back to the “exceptions.” Mary is special, she would
carry God inside her so The Trinity makes an exception,
Mary is sinless, she was born without Original Sin. She
committed no sin during her entire life.
The archangels greeting, God’s first words to Mary were
“Hail full of Grace.” The KJV Bible says something different, too bad. Those words means to be “full” of God, free of sin.
Honoring and loving Mary as Jesus does is not a “pagan” practice.” At the Great Warning, objections will be cleared up. Mary is difficult for Protestants. She loves you.
God bless you CB,
The deception is when the Roman Catholic Church contends whatever IT decides is "Tradition" is equal with Scripture. At one time, oral tradition WAS the teachings of Jesus Christ to his followers and included additional revelation given to selected ones but which they WROTE down so that there is even today the SAME teachings available today to all who seek to know what is and is not the doctrine of the Christian faith. The reason why Catholic Tradition is NOT considered by those outside of her as equal to Scripture is because NOBODY is alive today who was there when the Apostles were teaching and developing traditions. So, since no such exhaustive listing is available that states what those traditions were and no person is alive now who heard those oral traditions, how can anyone hold that this nebulous "tradition" be equal to Holy Scripture which we DO have in written form?
When Irenaeus disputed Valentinus over his claims to have received secret knowledge from the Apostles, Irenaeus stated:
Tradition confirms what is orthodox teaching; it does not form the basis for it and what Scripture says is what was AND is the orthodox teaching.
Cynical Bear is missing it too. You don’t get it. The
Eucharist is not cannibalism BUT it is still God, Jesus
Christ. You take Him on His Word.
“This IS My body.”
Understand in a supernatural way. If God says it is Him,
believe. Yes, God can confect Himself, it’s beyond our
understanding with our little minds. Doesn’t matter, God can do anything.
CYC:
...”but no such characteristics of such can be detected and yes, Jesus was passing around his body before ever he had offered it in heaven, in fact before he had died. How? Welll, he’s above and beyond time and sequence, space.’
The Blessed Trinity wants you to have faith because you
don’t “SEE” a change in the bread or wine, nor fully understand. Having faith is something God is pleased with and Our Lord, how humble of Him to come to be in us in this manner. That’s how much He loves you.
Whenever I have stated this on these forums before, I have been met with Catholic condemnation that I am committing the sin of "presumption" and that NOBODY can know they are saved. The Bait and Switch game of which I was speaking is that the Roman Catholic Church insists that she is the ONE, TRUE Church established by Jesus Christ and outside of her is no one saved (or at least the earlier Popes declared by their infallibly defined infallibility that was so (see the bull Unum Sanctum)).
What I abandoned when I left the Roman Catholic Church was the false doctrine of salvation by faith PLUS works that essentially made salvation wholly by works and by which it was claimed no one could possibly know they merited Heaven until they faced judgment. What I firmly laid hold upon was the promise of Jesus Christ that he gives to us eternal life and we shall NEVER perish, no one can pluck us from his hand, he will never lose us nor cast us out, but by believing in him we have everlasting life. I'd say my life is FULL of hope because it is based upon the Lord and giver of life!
boatbums,
The Bible came from the Church. Everything Christians know of Christ came from the RCC. Why do you battle the Church
trying to use her own writings?
Accept what the Word says, Catholics do. Jesus states
This IS My Body. We accept. Plus, Catholics do not
fall into error when they follow the Church, her authority
to interpret Scripture.
How many times do I have to say, God did not give every
person reading Scripture the authority to interpret
Scripture. God said, one Lord, one faith, one baptism
not “I disagree with your interpretation so I’ll start
my own Church, follow my opinion.” That’s why there are
30,000 Protestant denominations!!
“What I abandoned when I left the Roman Catholic Church”...
~ ~ ~
That’s the problem, fallen away Catholics are most bitter
about their choice. They are more objecting than our
non-Catholic brothers and sisters.
The Eucharist is true, Mary’s help is for everyone and
Confession to a priest, for the life of your soul.
Plus daily prayer.
Come home, come home. The Remnant is Roman Catholic. The
entire world is going to be shown this fact by God soon.
God desires we all believe the same.
Amen
Have you noticed, people stopped replying to the
Eucharist is cannibalism. It’s not.
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