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To: SeekAndFind

“”At the end of his life, Augustine wrote his Retractations where he corrects statements in his earlier writings which he says were erroneous.””

Dear,seek,Blessed Augustine Retractationes did not denounce any Catholic teaching Augustine held,they were only Blessed Augustine’s effort to explain the work in some of his previous writings. Augustine never wrote anything denouncing the primacy of Saint Peter and the succession of the primacy.

Here is Augustine’s 53 letter again- Blessed Augustine never retraced any of this at all!

St Augustine Letter 53..
http://ww.newadvent.org/fathers/1102053.htm

For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: “Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!” Matthew 16:18 The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these:— Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius. In this order of succession no Donatist bishop is found. But, reversing the natural course of things, the Donatists sent to Rome from Africa an ordained bishop, who, putting himself at the head of a few Africans in the great metropolis, gave some notoriety to the name of “mountain men,” or Cutzupits, by which they were known.

The biggest issue with Blessed Augustine was his lack of understanding in Greek-this is where he sometimes runs into trouble with some of his writings and where our fellow Eastern Orthodox rightfully take issue as well.

I suggest you go back and read Augustine sermon 26 since I think this is where Augustine lack of Greek understanding seems to be shown a little

Augustine Sermon 26
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160326.htm

He still comes to the conclusion in 26 to uphold Saint Peter as chiefest Apostle, which also coincides with his letter 53

“In that one Apostle then, that is, Peter, in the order of Apostles first and chiefest, in whom the Church was figured, both sorts were to be represented, that is, both the strong and weak; because the Church does not exist without them both.” Saint Augustine letter 26


184 posted on 05/11/2012 8:58:41 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

But again, I question the TIME he wrote that piece you just shared.

Augustine is a prodigous writer and you have to determine the TIME by which he wrote a piece of work.

He also changes his mind as he thought about things.

Just look at his work : RETRACTIONS.

The Retractions is an invaluable book. In it Augustine offers a retrospective re-reading and review of all of his written works, one at a time. He re-read his words so as to see what progress he had made in the truth, and to correct whatever he though required changing so as to be of better clarity and use for his many readers - present and future.

It is a revision of his works in chronological order, and explains the occasion and dominant idea of each. Even had there not been the circumstances of his great age and the threat of Vandal attack, this revision by Augustine was unique among Classical authors up to his era.

That was here he started to rethink all of the things that he wrote. AND IT WAS NEAR THE END OF HIS LIFE.

It was in that context that he rethought the Matthew 16 passage that I quoted.

And BTW, it isn’t only Augustine who wrote about Matthew 16.

Here are some passages from early church fathers:

Vatican I’s interpretation of Matthew 16:18 does not find unanimous consent among the church fathers:

And if we too have said like Peter, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,” not as if flesh and blood had revealed it unto us, but by light from the Father in heaven having shone in our heart, we become a Peter, and to us there might be said by the Word, “Thou art Peter,” etc. For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, add the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.
-Origen, Commentary on Matthew 12.10

SEE HERE:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-10/anf10-48.htm#P7807_1648194

What then saith Christ? “Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas; thou shalt be called Cephas.” “Thus since thou hast proclaimed my Father, I too name him that begat thee;” all but saying, “As thou art son of Jonas, even so am I of my Father.” Else it were superfluous to say, “Thou art Son of Jonas;” but since he had said, “Son of God,” to point out that He is so Son of God, as the other son of Jonas, of the same substance with Him that begat Him, therefore He added this, “And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church;” that is, on the faith of his confession.
-John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Matthew LIV.3

SEE HERE:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-10/npnf1-10-60.htm#P5263_1628465

Let no one then foolishly suppose that the Christ is any other than the only begotten Son. Let us not imagine ourselves wiser than the gift of the Spirit. Let us hear the words of the great Peter, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Let us hear the Lord Christ confirming this confession, for “On this rock,” He says, “I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”
-Theodoret, Letters of the Blessed Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus, Letter146

SEE HERE:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-03/Npnf2-03-23.htm#P5332_1283104

So no, there is no unanimous consent on this issue by many of the early church fathers.


185 posted on 05/11/2012 9:25:45 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: stfassisi

RE: . Augustine never wrote anything denouncing the primacy of Saint Peter and the succession of the primacy.

“denounce” is such a strong word. I would have to say that THERE WAS NOT A TIME WHEN AUGUSTINE THOUGHT OF ROME AS HAVING OVERALL JURISDICTION ON EVERY CHRISTIAN CHURCH OR BISHOP ON EARTH.

Augustine does not degrade the importance of St. Peter nor does he look at him with disrespect. No, he clearly recognizes Peter’s leadership. But that is a far cry from calling him the Pope.

That is not denouncing, that is simply what the early church was during Augustine’s time.

St. peter himself never calls himself that. In his epistle, he calls himself a FELLOW ELDER.

Here is what he wrote in 1 Peter 5:1 (emphasis mine )

1 I urge the elders among you, AS A FELLOW ELDER MYSELF, and a witness to the sufferings of Christ, and as one who is to have a share in the glory that is to be revealed:

2 give a shepherd’s care to the flock of God that is entrusted to you: watch over it, not simply as a duty but gladly, as God wants; not for sordid money, but because you are eager to do it.

BTW, I am quoting from the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible.

The church was what it was and its structure is clearly not similar to what the Vatican says it is today.


186 posted on 05/11/2012 9:32:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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