Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: SeekAndFind
"But that is precisely what Augustine does, although he leaves us in no doubt as to what he, as a leading bishop and theologian of the Church, personally believes."

Augustine is at odds not only with Scripture and the Magisterium, but with nearly every other Early Church Father on this issue. That is the very reason Augustine has never been declared or recognized as being infallible.

"I believe that there are those baptized in the Catholic ( and Protestant ) church who are not really saved."

As do I because no one is permanently saved until the moment of their death.

164 posted on 05/10/2012 12:41:45 PM PDT by Natural Law (God, be merciful to me, the sinner!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies ]


To: Natural Law

RE: Augustine is at odds not only with Scripture and the Magisterium, but with nearly every other Early Church Father on this issue. That is the very reason Augustine has never been declared or recognized as being infallible.

Yes he was and I agree with you. But that just goes to show that your so called central magisterium is a later development. Not something that was existent during the early years of Christianity.

As for Papal Infallibility? What to say? This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1869-1870.

And as for Augustine being at odds with every other church father, I have to ask — REALLY?

What about the church father Eusebius?

He was born in Caesarea in Palestine around the year 263 A.D. He took the name Eusebius Pamphilus after his mentor and teacher Pamphilus.

He was consecrated bishop of Caesarea in 313 A.D. and was a participant at the Council of Nicaea. He is known as the father of ecclesiastical history for his work on the history of the Church. He has very clearly expressed his views on the meaning of the rock of Matthew 16:

“‘And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bear, at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of thy nostrils’ (Ps. 18.14)...By ‘the foundations of the world,’ we shall understand the strength of God’s wisdom, by which, first, the order of the universe was established, and then, the world itself was founded—a world which will not be shaken. Yet you will not in any way err from the scope of the truth if you suppose that ‘the world’ is actually the Church of God, and that its ‘foundation’ is in the first place, that unspeakably solid rock on which it is founded, as Scripture says: ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’; and elsewhere: ‘The rock, moreover, was Christ.’ For, as the Apostle indicates with these words: ‘No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.’ Then, too, after the Savior himself, you may rightly judge the foundations of the Church to be the words of the prophets and apostles, in accordance with the statement of the Apostle: ‘Built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.’ These foundations of the world have been laid bare because the enemies of God, who once darkened the eyes of our mind, lest we gaze upon divine things, have been routed and put to flight—scattered by the arrows sent from God and put to flight by the rebuke of the Lord and by the blast from his nostrils. As a result, having been saved from these enemies and having received the use of our eyes, we have seen the channels of the sea and have looked upon the foundations of the world. This has happened in our lifetime in many parts of the world”

(Commentary on the Psalms, M.P.G., Vol. 23, Col. 173, 176).

Eusebius unambiguously teaches that the rock is Christ. He correlates this interpretation with the parallel rock and foundation statements of 1 Corinthians 10:4 and 3:11. He goes on to say that there is a subsidiary foundation, from Ephesians 2:20, of the apostles and prophets, the Church also built upon them, but the cornerstone is Christ. However he interprets this to mean that the Church is to be built upon the words or teachings of the apostles and prophets as opposed to their persons. It is in this sense that it can be said that the Church is built upon Peter and the other apostles. It is clear that Christ alone is the true foundation and rock of the Church and that Eusebius sees no peculiar Petrine primacy associated with Christ’s statements in Matthew 16.


165 posted on 05/10/2012 12:54:16 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson