Female Episcopal Priest Visits a Mormon Temple

The Mormon Dialogue ^ | April 23,,2012 | Danielle Tumminio

[Elsie]

... waiting for the preacher to innocently misspeak...

Sorry; but the Book of MORMON is PERFECT.

HEADQUARTERS in SLC says so!

Therefore, what is WRITTEN in it is supposed to be inviolate.

How can it be WRONG, when it came into existance in this manner:

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

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"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

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In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

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In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

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Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

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"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

I don't have to agree with a church's dogma to treat another person who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior as a brother or sister in Christ.

You sure as HELL better agree with your OWN church's dogma!

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#7 Temple Recommend questions...

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

[Elsie]

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Will you repudiate, affirm or ignore reply #67?

[MHGinTN]

Do you even know what ‘The Journal of Discourses’ is to the LDSinc faithful? You want to remain ignorant so you can defend the blasphemies, so be it. I’ve spent years, literally, studying the ‘paper’ trail of LDS inc, because one of my very longest and at one time closest friends fell into that cult worshipping in the smithian heresies. As a Christian, it was my duty to work at finding some way to open his eyes. But the cult mind fostered by LDS inc is a tough nut to crack. Folks like you who are not LDS who go out of your way to ridicule, accuse, and condemn people revealing the actual heresies and blasphemies in MormonISM make the task that much harder.

[Elsie]

You must then also mean all those who teach we must go through a final purging after death in order to be cleansed by Christ Blood are also going to hell as well?

Must?

Is that any thing like being given one more chance by the MORMONs after death?

Proxy baptised to PURGE away any remaining sins?

[Elsie]

That doesn't mean I think they are going to hell.

What?

What kind of a MORMON are you???

Oh; that's right. HELL doesn't mean much to you guys.

[Elsie]

...you could not even understand the correct meaning of “Fruits” in the Bible ...

And you cannot determine what "another gospel" means.

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KJV

Galatians 1:6-9

6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

ANYBODY???

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

Like THESE guys??

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

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Ephesians 2:1-2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

[Elsie]

Most of what you hear someone which is not a member says this church or that church teaches this or that is usually inaccurate.

What you READ here are things directly from MORMON sources - NOT Billy Bob's website.

You MORMONs MIGHT have an excuse to IGNORE BB; but NO reason to IGNORE the product of LDS headquarters.

[elcid1970]

Anyone who thinks that mirrors facing mirrors would give one a glimpse of godhood or of eternity, has obviously never set foot in a barber shop.

[Elsie]

Perhaps if you talked to them rather than talking down to them.........

You have GOT to be kidding; right??

 

MORMON

ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY

 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 

                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple

                            -- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)

26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).

 

 

Revision 46.5

Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.

All rights liable to be abused.

[cva66snipe]

You sure as HELL better agree with your OWN church's dogma!

I'll agree with The Bible and The Holy Spirit. That should suffice :>}

[Elsie]

Well your posting shows me you really enjoy the sport of condemning ones too hell...

Psssst!

Didn't you get the OTHER memo?

The one that said this tactic doesn't work?

--MormonDude(I'll be glad when warm weather is OVER; so I can eat MEAT again!)

[svcw]

THX 1138

[cva66snipe]

You have GOT to be kidding; right??

I'm not kidding. You might find out the person is just as much a believer in Jesus Christ as you are. Oh and the ones I have talked too like my cousins were raised up as Baptist.

[Elsie]

I'll agree with The Bible and The Holy Spirit. That should suffice :>}

Which parts?

MormonISM claims it is CORRUPTED.

MormonISM's god had Joseph Smith to do a re-write of it.

MormonISM (SLC branch) does NOT consider it (the JST) to be scripture.

MormonISM, therefore, makes no sense.

[cva66snipe]

You MORMONs MIGHT have an excuse to IGNORE BB; but NO reason to IGNORE the product of LDS headquarters.

I don't read the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church either. Does that church not ask an allegiance to the Vatican and Pope? I pretty much pass over their church writings passages when they get posted. From what little I can see there isn't that much major difference between them though. OH BTW I'm not Mormon. LOL I can with 100% certainty say I have not been too a LDS service. Last church I went to was a pew walking Baptist church. But that was years ago.

[cva66snipe]

Look. If you feel your friend is in the wrong church then do the most powerfull thing you can do about it. Pray. Pray & be patient. We want things then, now, and over with. GOD works in His own time too His own will. If correction is needed GOD has a method in which to do so.

I've talked too people from all walks. Some people can accept the teachings of Paul as "in all things are lawful for me but not all are expedient." Others literally either need someone thinking for them or a very rigid church structure even as too a KJV only study. Some like a church headquarters based close to where you are located believe there must be spiritual manifestations {gifts} as roof of salvation. One from that sect did some damage to someone I love where it took me many years to undo it. How many Christians do you know would walk up to a quadriplegic and say too them your lack of faith is why you are not healed? And people worry about Mormons?

[AppyPappy]

Face it, ya’ll are reduced to telling him what he believes. That’s a losing argument.

[cva66snipe]

LOL well Gee Wiz I've read what RC posters have said. I do disagree with purgatory, communion in the literal terms the RCC places it in, and having to confess to a Priest. I disagree with it but I don't see it as anything but a basic theological difference of opinion.