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To: reaganaut

Reaganaut poses an interesting question, and does so in a charitable and Christian fashion, but I think does so exactly backwards. The question could be just as well posed in the complementary manner “why do so many Protestants believe that Christ had a host of siblings”?

I’ll get back to the recast version of that question in a minute, but to reiterate what many have said on this forum, what the vast majority of Christians agree on is that Mary was conceived and born without original sin (the Immaculate Conception), and the Christ was conceived and born of Mary without the conventional requirement of human sexual congress (the Virgin Birth). Those are indicated or explicitly stated in scripture, are long-standing pillars of church tradition, and their denial would be massively consequential - they lead to something other than Christianity.

So if you told the average Catholic you didn’t accept the Virgin Birth as truth, he’d probably shake his head and mumble something like “must be a Unitarian” or the like, since in that case, you’re talking something other than Christianity.

But if you told the average Catholic you’re convinced Christ had true siblings, he’d simply say “we don’t believe that”, but would *not* dismiss your beliefs as corrosive to the mainstream of Christian teaching.

“White out” everything in scripture that supports the Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth, and you have a very different belief system; get rid of everything in scripture that suggests Mary raised a thriving household of numerous tikes and, well, it doesn’t really change much of substance as regards religious belief or practice. After all, we don’t know anything about these presumed individuals or their activities as regards our Savior and Redeemer - we’re apparently to suppose they just kinda were there.

Now I believe, as Chesterton did, that small errors in theological matters over the span of historical millenia can lead to serious consequences in practice, so even though the existence or non-existence of those siblings doesn’t impact the *core* of Christianity, getting it wrong could, and probably would, distort the belief system (probably in unpredictable ways) over thousands of years. So the question isn’t unimportant - it’s just less important.

But back to my formulation of the question - why is the existence of true siblings of Christ important to many sincere Protestants? And I’d answer - not for reaganaut, as he is eloquent enough in these matters to deal with that himself - but in my impressions of speaking with many Protestants that it’s because that concept is indicative of the importance of “sola scriptura” to Protestants. If its in the Bible, you can bank on it; if not, forget it.

Of course the problem with that approach is that interpretation can lead to disagreement, ultimately manifest as a multiplication of denominational beliefs that makes loaves and fishes look tame by comparison. As pointed out by others here, heavy hitters in the Protestant line-up like Luther and Calvin had no problem with an ever-virgin Mary - whether it was due to an alternative interpretation of the relevant scripture, or residual Catholic belief or (more probably) a combination of both might be a matter of discussion. But clearly, if one’s approach is “sola scriptura”, one can hardly argue that the answer is unambiguous.

Good Catholics aspire to a true adherence to the truth of scripture (though we seldom know that scripture as well as our Protestant brethren), but we put substantial importance on tradition, the ecclesiastical hierarchy, and the Magisterium as well.

As others have pointed out on this thread, the perpetual virginity of Mary has been accepted as dogma for almost two millenia (if not officially declared so until recently) - that means little in the context of “sola scriptura”, but it carries a load of weight with us.

But the bottom line - and I don’t mean to imply reaganaut has any problem with this - I think we can disagree on both “sola scriptura” and the number of actual siblngs Christ had with little consequence if we keep a couple of things in mind: 1) the continual secularization of our society is the major domestic challenge to all of us - Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, observant Jews - so much so that I’d much prefer that the Protestant view of Christian belief form the cultural basis of our society, rather than the secular view; and 2) the challenge of militant Mohammadenism is the major non-domestic threat to the well-being of our democratic society and religious freedom.

If we stay focused on those, we can continue to enjoy well-meaning discussions on theological fine points.


192 posted on 03/17/2012 10:23:34 PM PDT by Stosh
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To: Stosh; reaganaut

>> “why do so many Protestants believe that Christ had a host of siblings”? <<

.
Mostly because the Bible expressly says so in several places.
.


197 posted on 03/17/2012 10:34:43 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Stosh

Thank you for your response. It was well articulated and gave me some food for thought. I do appreciate it very much.


237 posted on 03/18/2012 11:22:55 AM PDT by reaganaut ("I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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