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To: stfassisi
God gives us Grace to follow His will, but we are free to accept that Grace and follow His will for us. We are also free to reject Grace and follow our own will against what God wants us to do

God has laid out a perfect plan for our lives (Jer 29:11). It is our nature to constantly want to reject God's perfect plan because we are rebellious. God graciously prods us back on course with either His rod (harshly) or His staff (softly) every time we start to stray simply so He can protect His good name (Psalm 23). How far God will allow us to stray is understood only by Him.

We no more will follow God's commands than a two-year old would listen to us telling him not to touch a bit of candy in a candy store. It is like God giving us manna from heaven. We take the food of the angels and grind it, boil it, fry it and pervert it in every way imaginable. We just simply cannot take what God has given us, thank Him that He was kind enough to provide such a feast and be satisfied. Instead we grumble for the quail of earth when He has given us the bread of heaven. We are never satisfied. And if any of us Christians think we freely will follow God, all we need to do is ask ourselves how many times have we really wanted that quail instead of accepting what God has graciously provided.

Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

We HAVE to be led by the Holy Spirit, otherwise we would never do the things of God.

I believe we would agree that Paul was not a Christian when stoning Stephan. He wasn't given much choice when on the Damascus Road in his conversion. And as far as following Pope Peter, it seems like it was almost the other way around or at the very least they were coequal. Paul stood up to Peter (Gal) and felt his mission was to the Gentiles while Peter was to the Jews.

602 posted on 04/25/2012 4:04:34 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
And if any of us Christians think we freely will follow God

Harley , God provides us with the Grace to follow His will,it is our will coming into line with His will when we freely accept this Grace and it is our Will being self serving if we decide not follow the Will of God.

I believe we would agree that Paul was not a Christian when stoning Stephan. He wasn't given much choice when on the Damascus Road in his conversion

Saul(Paul) obviously was given a choice when Christ said to him in the form of a question... "Saul,Saul, why do you persecute me?(Acts 9) "

Saul(Paul) was given Grace to see his error,but still had a choice to go into the city to follow Christ's will.

For all we know someone like Nero might have been given the same CHOICE as Saul(Paul) and chose to continue to kill Christians

Harley, this denial of free will is nothing more than Gnostic determinism or fatalism that is Manichean teaching that was condemned throughout Christian history and was revived with a fervor with the gnostic John Calvin .

From the words of Saint Irenaues....

“Forasmuch as all men are of the same nature, having power to hold and to do that which is good, and having power again to lose it, and not to do what is right; before men of sense, (and how much more before God!) some… are justly accused, and receive condign punishment, because they refuse what is just and right.” Saint Irenaeus

You're now free use your free will to believe whatever you want,dear brother!

This topic has been discussed at nauseum here of FR

603 posted on 04/26/2012 11:01:24 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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