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To: Dutchboy88
I thought you gave up all this wrestling for Lent?

Not with the participants this attractive. :)

Let me be perfectly clear. The Body of Christ is not, repeat not, an “organization”. That is something that the RCC cooked up to keep the sheeple in chains. The Body of Christ is the assembly gathered by the Holy Spirit from all over the world, the believers in Jesus who have been rescued by the rebirth from above. Correction #1.

The Gospels and Acts disagree with that statement. Jesus put a lot of time and effort into the creation of the Church. Peter and the 12, as well as Paul and his assistants show that that statement is wrong overall. The Church is an organization; else it is chaos. We have the chaos of the Reformation, for instance which has given us the fracturing of Christianity (with the expected departure from Christianity) warned about by Christ.

The organization from Rome is the outfit which has added to the simple message of faith in Jesus, granted by the grace of God. The believers in Christ don’t need papalism, sacerdotalism, indulgences, confession in booths, Hail Mary’s for penance, pergatory, sacraments, pope mobiles, and prada shoes. Correction #2

The believers in Christ need to believe in Christ. However, one's personal interpretation of Christianity is proscribed in Scripture. You have named a number of things as antithetical to Christianity. Let us take them in order.

Papalism. Peter in Acts 2 and 10.

Sacerdotalism. The Last Supper and all of early Christianity.

Indulgences. The power to forgive sins and the power of the keys.

Confession in booths. You don't believe in confession and repentence of sins?

Hail Mary’s for penance. Who are you to prescribe penance?

Purgatory. What else would you call the transition between earth and heaven after Judgement?

Sacraments. What Jesus left us with.

Pope mobiles. Even Jesus withdrew from angry crowds.

Prada shoes. No Pope in history has worn Prada shoes. Boy, you're not swinging it over the plate tonight.

If Paul says that Jesus told him the Law is gone, then I am going to listen to the apostle appointed by Jesus. And your organization wants the credit for finding all of his letters and binding them into the Book. Now your gang doesn’t like what they say. Correction #3

Jesus says that the Law is not gone. Am I going to listen to your interpretation of Paul or am I going to listen to Christ?

If you guys would read the text and God permitted the scales to fall off, you would swim back over that infested Tiber and into the light of Christ, alone. Now, some of you might very well be among the elect, thus He will rescue you in spite of Rome. For this I am grateful. Got to run...

Actually, God is permitting more and more to swim to pure destinations over the pure Tiber (and head East to the Orthodox who are our equal brothers in Faith).

Good talking to you. Perhaps I may show you the error of your individualistic post Reformation ways. Jesus gave the instruction 2000 years ago. He didn't mean for a self serving cabal to open up Christianity to the lowest common denomination.

175 posted on 03/21/2012 7:20:58 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Cronos; D-fendr

Ping to post.


176 posted on 03/21/2012 7:22:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
"The Gospels and Acts disagree with that statement. Jesus put a lot of time and effort into the creation of the Church. Peter and the 12, as well as Paul and his assistants show that that statement is wrong overall. The Church is an organization; else it is chaos."

Very kind response and, as usual, delivered well. But, (there's that "but"), the difference between an "organization" and a gathering is enormous. Rome has created an "organization", even a country. Yet, the English word translated "church" is a fabricated word from the Scottish term "kirk" intended to distinguish it. A feature not found in the Scriptural word. That word is of course "ecclesia" or "assembly" and the Greek NT will occasionally used it precisely for a chaotic mob. Acts 19:32; 19:39; 19:41. It was a common word, but not for a formal organization. The assembly Jesus is building is being done by His Holy Spirit blowing wherever He wishes.

I have reread Acts 2 and 10 and cannot find papalism. I find no apostolic succession. Again, please point out exactly where a "pope" is set up and a new one is going to be appointed after the death of the last one.

Sacerdotalism does not appear at the so-called "Last Supper" (a name the publishers added to the top of the pages). If this is the way Rome constructs a doctrine it is little wonder they could manufacture so much.

Indulgences are making a comeback but there is no evidence anywhere in the Scripture that a man can grant another man forgiveness before God. The Jews recognized that one would have to be God to do so.

Confession in booths. Of course I believe in confession. Even confessing sin against one another TO one another. But, this is not the confession in booths going on in the RCC which holds that men can grant one another forgiveness for some kind of penalty paid, such as six Hail Mary's, five Our Fathers. Nowhere is such nonsense found in the Scriptures.

I apologize for the Prada shoes remark. I actually thought this was the case. In view the enormous amount of gold, silk, decor, pomp & circumstance granted this man, I still find the contrast between him and Jesus shocking, yet Jesus was God on Earth. It was the errant Pharisees who loved the center stage and the RCC just looks oddly similar.

My intention is not to beat up the RCC (although that is tempting because of the great errors I notice), but to call to those involved with it to look closely at the Text. The doctrines this organization promulgates are simply not there. Much more could be said, but I have to go.

186 posted on 03/22/2012 9:22:29 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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