Posted on 03/17/2012 7:26:45 AM PDT by GonzoII
Yet in Romans Paul did not say this. The problem is the ambiguous use of “ Law “ in the New Testament. In Romans Paul is not telling the Jews that the Torah is defunct,rather they should keep it but not impose it on the other nations. In Galatians he says something else. Since Romans was written later, ought we not conclude that whatever he said to the Galatians it was not his final word. As to the Reformers use of the term “Law “as an analogy to those Catholic teachings/practices contrary to Dr. Luther’s thoughts on the matter, I take it for what is — his private opinion.
“I also do not accept any arguments that either Protestants or Catholics cannot know and love Jesus because of differences in doctrine. “
On that, we agree.
Rom. 3:21ff: But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a GIFT BY HIS GRACE through the redemption which is in ROME (oops, "Christ Jesus")." Whether Luther believed this or not is immaterial. What does the Scripture that Rome claims to have given everyone say? Well, evidently it says Rome is wrong.
We agree on a whole lot more than that. One of the shortcomings of these forums is that we spend 99% of our time discussing our disagreements. Its like comparing donuts by concentrating on the holes.
This all belies the unusual perspective that the RCC holds with regard to the Scriptures, viewing themselves as sitting in judgment. Not even Peter held such arrogant views.
IIPet3:14ff: Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him wrote to you, as also in ALL HIS LETTERS, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable (ROME) distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Hmmm.
??? If it is KJV w/Ap , then why are you adding-- is it missing the Xrefs that KJV-v.1 contained.?
It is intellectually dishonest to claim the reason for the omission of the Apocrypha is some type of “antiCatholic” hate speech.
Athanasius excluded those books in 367AD from the Canon even when he presented the list of 27 NT books commonly accepted for the NT today.
While there are numerous lists, they simply are recommended readings, but not considered part of the Canon of Scripture.
Most believers I have observed who are preoccupied with the Apocrypha, also happen to have doubts regarding the canonicity of the more accepted 27 books of the NT. IMHO, if believers have doubts, start with the first 27 books and after mastering and growing through faith in Christ in reading His Word in those books, then continue with others.
What is intellectually dishonest is to presume that anti-Catholicism played no role in the efforts by the Reformation to undermine the authority of the Church on a broad front that included disputing the canonicity of any books that ran contrary to Reformationist doctrines. It is also equally dishonest to contend that Catholic defense of the full 72 book Canon is based upon anything other than the Apostolic Tradition and early Magisterium that produced the New Testament.
I do realize that nothing I post will accomplish what 500 years of Catholic apologetics has not accomplished, but then again, you won't have much success either.
Athenasius didn’t support that view.
The issue, if it is raised, is simply to identify the Canon.
Feel free to provide the justification for the books which are contained within it.
It’s foolish to turn that search into contention.
I have copied this in total because I have no idea what you are getting at. Perhaps you can try again, more clearly this time.
That the Law is gone and Paul happened to be the bearer of that "bad news" for the Jews is precisely what got him into such hot water all the way through Luke's second journal (Acts of the Apostles). The man was hated by Jews who clung to the misunderstanding that the Law represented a means to holiness. When Paul told them it was simply a mirror, a tutor, to explain to them how bad they were and drive them to their knees, they detonated. The irrevocable gifts and calling have nothing to do with the Law.
Certainly, the RCC has errantly taken components of the Law (papalism (chief priest), sacerdotalism (priesthood), sacraments (sacrifices), temples (cathedrals), etc.) and extended them into an age of grace. Jesus prophesied the end of all of this when He said,"...an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth...". When the blood was shed, the curtain was torn and the Law (as anything other than the tutor) faded away. But, the modern day Judaizers love their self-righteousness the way the Jews did then. Here then is a monstrous blasphemy.
And to the rest, it is ironic that Protestantism has reverted to the forms of the synagogues, with the Gospel now occupying the place of the Torah, and teachers like Luther in place of the rabbis--the successors of the Pharisees (all laymen).
I overheard on a SF bus over a dozen years ago some crazy lady ranting “if English was good enough for Jesus Christ...”.
That was amusing!
People watching can be fun.
In San Francisco it is a human safari trip!
Keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times.
Yea, mostly the in the NT as far as I could deduce from the version at Amazon.
Thanks for the addition!
I wouldn't say 'generally'. Acceptance of the Septuagint was world-wide at the time of Christ. Many more Jews used Greek than Hebrew and it was the lingua franca not only of the world, but of the scattered Jews around the world and in the Middle East. The mythical Council of Jamnia was supposedly convened to deal after the Temple fall with the increased scattering of the Jews and the growing Christian presence. The tale further goes to say that the Roman emperor Flavius pressured the Council to especially remove Macabbees because of the Jewish revolt portrayed in it against the Romans. To reiterate, if there was a Council, it was convened 60 years or so after Jesus Resurrected and it was a council of Jewish Pharisees, not Christians.
The birkat, prayed by Jews in the traditions of that rabbinical Council, says "For apostates may there be no hope, and may the Nazarenes and heretics suddenly perish."
Jews think of Christians in similar fashion to what Christians think of the Latter Day Saints.
Ah, here is where we part company, my FRiend. Jesus fulfilled the Law and, in fact, it was done away with.
I suppose we do. Let us turn to Jesus to explain it to us.
Matthew 5: 17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Where are all of these baggage items again? The RCC is the modern day Judaizer turning faith into Law. Such is not the New Covenant.
Again, let us turn to the words of Jesus.
Matthew 28: 16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
The Church is to teach all men, and we have the Faith given to the Apostles from Jesus, and handed down from them to us. With these words from Christ, you may wish to re-examine your interpretation of the passage from Galatians.
My encounter was with an a-capella Church of Christ pastor who also raved on about Jesus teaching from the KJV...
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