To be fair caww,I've seen the gospel do pretty much the same thing in church.
Me personally,I've not spoken in tongues...much...I've sort of tried it or 'let' it if you know what I mean.It didn't particularly click with me,I didn't like it for whatever reason(a reason that eludes me to this day) However I'm well aware that sometimes when I have a bad feeling about something,it aint always the Spirit of God but rather my own flesh squirming.Sometimes it's difficult to tell..."who can know it?"
On Kenneth Copeland,I've not before read the quotes posted on this thread and some of them are troubling to say the least.However,I watched His broadcast here in Oz (430am!)for about 10-12 years and sort of got to know him and where he was coming from and I had absolutely no doubt that he 'got it' and many of his sermons were,to me at least,very strong spiritual meat.Many many times during his sermons he would look down the camera with that big Texan block head of his and say something that was straight from God to me and boy oh boy did I ever feel convicted! He was and is to me one of the most annointed preachers of the Word that I have ever heard.
"...micophone picked up Copeland saying..."Take the mark of the beast""
If Copeland actually meant what that statement seems to be implying he meant,that would indeed stagger my mind and grieve me greatly.I hope that doesn't trouble any here,I'm just thankfull for what I learned way back when listening to his sermons.
Hoping this thread doesn't get locked.
God bless
Just google “Copeland says take the mark of the beast”....and it wasn’t just him speaking that stuff. Those with him were as well...but they are so hyped up they haven’t a clue what’s coming out of their mouths...or if inddeed they do then they are certainly working for the enemy of mens souls.....
The problem with copeland listeners is they don’t reserach the guy their listening to. He’s been known for sometime to be a fraud....but his followers are told “Not to touch their annointed one” and they are so full of fear about that they simply continue on.
Copelands ministry is a fraud in every sense of the word..if you check it out you will see as much...and not buy into the fact he spews to his listeners that anything negative said about him or his ministry is of satan trying to distroy it....that’s hogwash...Copeland will destroy his own ministry just as Baker and others have before him.
Copeland has a vast legal system which goes up against any who threaten his ministry....no different than any other leader who will not let anyone take down their empire of wealth...His Gospel is a counterfeit and the Christ he presents is not the Christian Christ.
The problem is that wolves in sheep’s clothing are still wolves.
I don’t think that Satan ever tells complete lies. There is always going to be some truth mixed into it. For one thing, I think it would be impossible to tell 100% lies.
The other thing is that mixing some truth in with the lies makes the lies more palatable.
The fruit of Copeland’s life does not match the fruit of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5.
The Holy Spirit will convict when truth is told even coming from a false prophet but just because something good can come of it on occasion, is not justification for accepting the rest. There are better sources of Scriptural teaching than Copeland, men who hold much more to the integrity of Scripture with integrity in their own lives.
With the false doctrine he’s teaching, it’s not worth the risk of being deceived to think that you can take what is good out of his teaching and ignore the bad.
INDEED.
The Gospel itself brings division when folks start earnestly practicing it in their relationships.
The rebellious are not interested. And unless they repent, confess, turn from such and let go of their rebellion, there WILL BE DIVISION.
Tongues is sort of a stark challenge to those who are addicted to !!!!CONTROL!!!! phreaque stuff of themselves and others—IN THE FLESH. It is a call, a challenge to surrender the flesh to Holy Spirit’s direction. That’s a key reason why !!!!CONTROL!!!! phreaque folks are so resistent and hostile to it.
The battle in our Christian walk is virtually always with our flesh. We try to perfect ourselves in the flesh. We try to do ‘the Christian thing’ in the flesh. It never works.
Letting go and letting God is a dance of self-control and responsibility to do what we are called of God to do and that usually BY LETTING GO OF LEADING THE DANCE ABANDONING CONTROL AND FOLLOWING SUBMISSIVELY AND COOPERATIVELY AS HOLY SPIRIT LEADS THE DANCE.
It’s a delicate fine line.
And it’s a line that teachers, preachers, prophetic people, tongues and interpretation people have a LOT of experience with. It is easy to cross back and forth over the line of in or out of the flesh.
MANY people get frustrated with that phenomenon and find it easier to just give up the frustrating challenge to remain operating consistently in Holy Spirit vs the flesh and they just avoid teaching, preaching, ministering, prophetic sharing or tongues and interpretation rather than risk BEING WRONG!
WELLLL WHOOOP T DO. That assumes that somehow by such avoidance they’ll manage to do the rest of their Christian walk perfectly and never in the flesh. WRONG!
Just because someone is walking out some other aspect of the Christian life that’s not so public or vulnerable to criticism does NOT mean it’s LESS in the flesh! It’s just easier hidden or white-washed.
PART OF THE PURPOSE OF THIS LIFE IS TO DEMONSTRATE TO US AND THE WORLD
THAT
APART FROM HIM,
WE CAN DO
NOTHING!
Sigh.
Yet perversely, we still
STRIVE IN THE FLESH
TO PERFECT
OURSELVES—IN OUR USUAL !CONTROL! PHREAQUE WAYS—LEAVING GOD OUT OF IT BECAUSE—THANK YOU VERY MUCH, WE CAN HANDLE *THIS* PART OF PERFECTING OURSELVES. . . . OR SO WE DELUDEDLY PRETEND.
STRIVING in the flesh
will always produce wood, hay and stubble or worse.
That’s true teaching a Bible study; praying for a loved one; preaching; singing; whatever
used tampon WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS we are so proud of our POLISHED, WHITEWASHED, PRISSY STRIVING in.
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy [minstral] rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
None of us likes to think that our best efforts in our flesh are such a stench.
Virtually all Christians at some point, to some degree like to pretend that in spite of being ‘saved by faith alone’ we are now earning our Salvation by our prissy self-righteous works in the flesh.
We feel more smug and more confident of being on the right path and landing in Heaven BECAUSE of the more hours we pray; or the more we give; or the more street people we bring to church; or the more church positions we hold or the more we witness in lines at Walmart; . . . .
But it’s all a self-defeating farce to pretend that works of the flesh will ever produce righteousness or fruit of Holy Spirit.
It’s like giving alms before men for praise of men. We already have the reward.
ONLY HOLY SPIRIT SATURATED WORKS PRODUCE FRUIT OF HOLY SPIRIT.
Other stuff may LOOK good TO MAN. But it’s a trap. It will burn up. It’s wood hay and stubble.
GOD MAY STILL BRING GOOD OF IT . . . but that’s because OF GOD—not our works.
I’m reminded of my Mother’s cousins . . . a couple of cowboys some 60 or so years ago. They were up in Montana or Wyoming, I think it was. And they needed money to get back to Texas.
They were backslidden Christians reared in church so they decided to hold a revival in some park or some such place. They went for several nights and a dozen or 3 people walked forward and made professions of faith in Christ.
The cousins were unsaved at the time—certainly not walking with Jesus. They were drinking, cussing, carousing cowboys.
Nevertheless, not only did they get money to return to Texas. YEARS LATER, THEY MET AGAIN SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO CAME FORWARD ACCEPTING CHRIST in that revival—and those individuals in some cases were still WALKING WITH GOD. God used even the cowboys’ works of flesh to produce a lasting spiritual walk in other individuals’ lives.
HOWEVER, THOSE WORKS OF FLESH DID NOT PRODUCE HOLY SPIRIT FRUIT IN THOSE COWBOYS’ LIVES. They had some repenting to do to get back right with God and experience God’s pleasure and fruit in their personal lives.
In my experience, tongues is a daily opportunity to surrender my conscious intellectual desperate need to control my life and LET GO AND LET GOD—in a sense. IT is NOT as though Holy Spirit forces my speech muscles to work like a puppet. It is a dance.
Yes, there are times when the supernatural sensations come over me and I do pray with great force and no sense of personally controlling my speech muscles. However, I can still stop and start or modify such at will. I just prefer, wisely, to go with Holy Spirit’s leading in that dance.
And, yes, it was not entirely comfortable for a self-conscious teen the first many times. However, thankfully, Holy Spirit’s PRESENCE was so wonderful, the discomfort was far secondary.
Later on, when the ‘electric goosbumps’ aspect was gone and I was challenged to walk by faith, I had to ignore the discomfort or fear of many aspects and pray in tongues when it was fitting regardless. Of course, that wasn’t for public consumption but was between God and I directly. Nevertheless, those nearby could hear me mumbling along in tongues under my breath and criticize if they so felt like it. I had to ignore that prospect.
Anyway—FWIW, BRO. May God lead you in His will for each day of your walk with Him. Thanks for sharing.