Posted on 03/07/2012 10:24:56 AM PST by marshmallow
MINNEAPOLIS (ABP) – An author and preacher popular in Calvinist circles says it is no accident that recent killer tornadoes followed paths that ravaged some communities while others were spared.
“Why would God reach down his hand and drag his fierce fingers across rural America killing at least 38 people with 90 tornadoes in 12 states, and leaving some small towns with scarcely a building standing, including churches?” John Piper of Desiring God ministries wrote in a blog March 5.
Piper, pastor for preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, said it is wrong to ascribe power capable of causing an estimated $2 billion worth of property damage to Mother Nature or the devil.
“God alone has the last say in where and how the wind blows,” Piper said. “If a tornado twists at 175 miles an hour and stays on the ground like a massive lawnmower for 50 miles, God gave the command.”
Piper said he doesn’t know why if God has a quarrel with America that he wouldn’t show his displeasure in Washington or Hollywood instead of places like Henryville, Ind., but that “every deadly wind in any town is a divine warning to every town.”
(Excerpt) Read more at abpnews.com ...
Uh,what? Is that a swipe at all meteorologists or a swipe at me?
Indeed. But it's strange how that works, no?
If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.
Or you can get raw with these strings.
How about this gamechanger from America's Got Talent (which they SHOULD have won).
And finally, this, dedicated to the one and only rdb2, whose eyes are growing dim.
Either way, the violin is sweet yet LETHAL.
Do it!
I can cite many, many verses of Scripture that refer to the innocent. Here is but one:
Exodus 23:7 NKJV
Keep yourself far from a false matter; do not kill the innocent and righteous. For I will not justify the wicked.
bflr
Well said. In the last 6 months or so, I have been extremely blessed to help run a new ministry at our church which is a bible study for adults with intellectual and developmental handicaps. It is the most wonderful thing I have been involved with.
Last night's lesson was basically a review of Genesis - from the Almighty God who created all things AND holds all things together to the God who makes covenants with His people, and how He works in their lives to keep His covenant and to care for them. Although Joseph was betrayed and sold by his brothers and thrown into prison because someone lied about him, he very clearly proclaims that it was GOD who sent him (Gen 45:7-8).
In the same manner, there has never been ANYONE innocent of sin except for Christ Jesus the Lord and the unspeakable happened to Him. Why did these things happen? For His glory and our salvation. We don't understand it at the time, but knowing that God is totally sovereign is a source of great joy and peace when these things happen.
What is amazing is I pondered on how to tell that to a group of 30+ adults with Down's syndrome (who also have all sorts of physical issues), autism, fetal alcohol syndrome, and who knows what else. How do you tell them that these awful things happen for good? How do you tell them that if God is sovereign, then their disabilities are under His control?
The only way is to teach the Word. And the Word says that God is sovereign and in control and works out all things in the lives of His people for their good (Romans 8:28).
As always in this blessed ministry - they teach you more than you can teach them, I think. Their response to this back was pure joy in their spirit because they already knew it. They really understand Joseph's and Job's trials because in many ways that we don't know, this is their daily life.
Several came up to me after the lesson excited to share how the "bad" things that happened to them were a good thing. Not just the adult that saw how God brought her through the after effects of a stroke at the age of 16, but a young man of 20 with Down's who for many days was in critical condition from a lung infection. He wrote this poem and had it put to song - it says it all:
I was in the hospital
I thought I would die
I was tired and so sick
Even having nightmares
But God you saved me
Yes, you saved me
God you made a miracle out of me
You took away my sickness
You saved me from my pain
You gave me strength when I was weak
Yes, God, you made a miracle out of me
Now I feel so good
'cause Jesus stays by my side
Yes, now I feel so strong
It's a beautiful thing that God has done for me.
If anyone is interested in such a ministry at their church, freepmail me. There are a lot of excellent resources out there that make it easy to do this.
You're free to belive what you like, however misguided.
Babies and children are innocent.
____________________________________________
Actually, they are not. I believe it was Jonathan Edwards who raised the excellent point that it can be easily proved that babies are sinners. They die.
I have always thought it silly when I hear people say god did this or that for a reason. Dammit people, $%!T happens and god doesn’t have anything to do with it.
Or babies may be Gods who became men - they have been known to die as well.
Aye. Jesus said that the Father ordains the fall of every sparrow (i.e. everything, including the trivial). On another occasion he compares us to clay and God to the potter. What right does the lump have to determine how it is shaped? On its own it can do nothing. The absolute soverignty of God in His creation troubles some and comforts others. For some reason we no longer understand that it is not events that are evil, but rather it is the heart of man. A tornado (or a cancer, or a tsunami, or a heart attack) is a tool of God to accomplish His purposes. It is our choice how to react to them, to sin or to remain righteous.
If there were no such thing as an innocent, Scripture would not reference the shedding of innocent blood, which it does, many, many times.
Yes, God decides what He wants to do with His creations. But people forget that Satan has power too. God allowed Job’s misery. He didn’t command it.
There’s a difference between God allowing Satan to use his power against God’s creation and God using His power on His creation. One is God giving His consent and not taking action. The other is God directly taking action.
A tornado could be either one, IMO.
Good point. I think there is more to it, as in “Don’t shed non-criminal blood,” but then that is interpretive, and I could be wrong.
Really? - His word tells us in hundreds of places that he punishes nations.
Agreed editor-surveyor. What the verse above indicates is that ALL deserve to have the "tower fall", or the "tornado hit". The point is not why did God not send it where I would have, but rather why did God show me mercy and spare me from what I most deserved.
Put another way, nothing happens without God. Hence Piper is correct. The tornados were not random. Perhaps more to the point, they were not without divine purpose.
Now that I can support!
Piper makes it seem as if God is punishing the innocent. I disagree. He allowed it according to His plan. Big diference, IMHO.
There's a sobering answer to this question: God chastened every son He loves.
Yes, God allows evil. The flaw in the premise of many expressing disdain for Piper’s view is a lack of appreciation for the contrast between the depths of sinfulness in man (even supposedly “good” men) and the a) holiness and b) love of God for sinners.
Is it better for Him to allow them to live blithely and die in their sins or to cause them to cry out to Him and be saved? In that light, such natural disasters are an act of mercy rather than vengeance.
To Him be the glory...
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