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To: Colofornian
As for authority, it's plain as day in His Word...Jesus said: 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (John 1:12-13)

Yes, we are reborn into the Family of God through the adoption of the New Covenant Sacrifice (Rom 8:15). You stretch it too far to take it to mean general authority. Again, in the Protestant world, if all have the same authority in regards to Scriptural revelation and interpretation, then there is no authority at all. Scripture means just what individuals say it means and the 20,000+ denominations are just a front for the 500 million or so churches of one.

Hmmm...I guess you must stay out of the book of Revelation then, eh? (Who made the rounds to those seven churches? See Revelation 3)

Silly interpretation. These are warnings to the churches regarding the Spirit they received--and what they did with It. This doesn't say that Christ came to them in the flesh and gave them the Word that they could live a righteous life. This is end times fulfillment on what the churches have done with the faith given them by the Apostles. Nice try... big stretch.

63 posted on 03/02/2012 7:56:03 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
You stretch it too far to take it to mean general authority. Again, in the Protestant world, if all have the same authority in regards to Scriptural revelation and interpretation, then there is no authority at all. Scripture means just what individuals say it means and the 20,000+ denominations are just a front for the 500 million or so churches of one.

My read of the NT is that there's five types of authority [you're welcome to provide scriptures for a 6th]:

(1) Civil authority (Romans 13; 1 Pet. 2:13; 1 Tim. 2:2)
(2) Heirship authority as children of God (John 1:12-13)
(3) Apostolic authority (1 Thess. 2:6) -- that which the apostles had [It's up to you to prove that this was "transferable"]...

To be authoritatively apostolic, "one had to be an eyewitness of the resurrected Christ (Acts 1:22; 1 Cor. 9:1; 15:5-8), which clearly disqualifies anyone after the first century." (Rhodes & Geisler, When Cultists Ask, p. 206) Apostles had certain signs (2 Cor. 12:12). The apostles "were given certain unmistakable 'signs of a true apostle' (2 Cor. 12:12). These sign-gifts included the ability to raise the dead on command (Matt. 10:8; [cf. Acts 20:7-11]), heal diseases immediately that were naturlaly incurable (Matt. 10:8; John 9:1-7), perform immediately successful exorcisms (Matt 10:8; Acts 16:16-18), speak messages in languages they had never studied (Acts 2:1-8; cf. 10:44-46); and pass on supernatural gifts to others so that they could assist them in their apostolic mission of founding the church (Acts 6:6; cf. 8:5-6; 2 Tim. 1:6)." (Geisler, Rhodes, When Cultists Ask, pp. 113-114)...I don't believe these things "died out" with the apostles; I just don't believe any single "titled" apostles have this same gift-set as what was given. Btw, ALL of that power was given to ALL the apostles (Matt. 18:18) -- not just Peter.

(4) Derived authority -- the disciples' keys to bind & loose, for example (Matt. 16:19)...a "trust" that the leaders of Israel had failed in (Luke 11:52; Acts 9:14; Acts 26:10-12)...In fact,, when Christ rebuked the Jewish leaders it wasn't because they didn't follow the leadership traditions but because they did not "understand the Scriptures" (Matt. 22:29) [sola scriptura]
NOTE: Other examples of derived authority:
--Derived authority to take on demonic spirits (Luke 10:19; Mk 3:15; 6:7)
--For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. (1 Thess. 4:2) [Derived Authority to teach]
--Derived Authority to encourage & rebuke (Titus 2:15)
--Derived Authority to edify (build up the body) (2 Cor. 10:8; 2 Cor. 13:10)
--Derived Authority to make disciples by teaching & baptizing (Matt. 28:19-20)

(5) Absolute Authority of Jesus Christ ["ALL authority has been given unto me..." (Matt. 28:18); cf. Jude 25; Rev. 12:10; 2:27]

I don't see anywhere where Christ has 90% authority...and given men have 10%. I don't see from Matt. 28:20 ("lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the age") -- where His omnipresence leaves Him stuck at the right Hand of God...as you imply.

And derived authority is distinct to a degree re: delegated authority. Since the Lord is the Boss; and the Boss is still present; and the Boss is the "Head" of the Body, He didn't simply delegate authority to men & then go on vacation for 2,000 years!

He has [present tense] ALL authority [see verses above]. I encourage you to stop playing down what authority is in His current hands -- and stop playing up what authority is in a single man who automatically has to live in the same place in Europe!

Even with authority verses re: church leaders like Heb. 13:17...Rhodes & Geisler do a good job explaining that:
"Proper submission to a church leader is voluntary, not compulsory. It involves a free choice to join or leave...It is done out of love and respect (cf. Heb. 13)...While the Bible speaks of voluntary submission from the bottom up, it nowhere enjoins compulsory obedience from the top down." (When Cultists Ask, p. 229-230) -- unless, of course, that "top" is our Lord.

Sorry...your model of human SuperAuthority coming thru a single-succession line of one man fails.

Here are other Scriptural reasons why:
* What then do you do with the apostle Paul? "I was in no way inferior to these [so-called] 'superapostles'" (2 Cor. 12:11); Paul rebuked Peter (Gal. 2:11-21); he claimed to be on the same level as Peter (Gal. 2:8); he wrote half of the NT -- compared to Peter's two epistles
* BOTH Peter & John were sent by the apostles on a mission (Acts 8:4-13)
* Peter wasn't "THE pastor of the church but only a 'fellow presbyter [elder]' (1 Peter 5:1-2)." (Rhodes & Geisler, p. 113)
* "In view of the New Testament titles used of Peter, it is clear that he would never have accepted the terms used of the Roman Catholic Pope today: 'Holy Father' (cf. Matt. 23:9) or 'Supreme Pontiff' and "Vicar of Christ.'" (Rhodes & Geisler, p. 193)

The Holy Spirit is our Vicar (John 14:16,26; 16:13-14).

67 posted on 03/04/2012 12:38:19 AM PST by Colofornian ( Those who militate vs. 'sola scriptura' lack the character of nobility (Acts 17:11))
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