Posted on 02/24/2012 10:03:39 PM PST by imardmd1
INTRODUCTION:
This is another chapter in the study of the Seven Baptisms, one book of the series entitled, Fundamental Facts For Searching Saints (Acts 2:41,42). Baptism has quite a significant meaning in The God’s Word according to the viewpoint of The God. What does baptism mean to you? How does your meaning of Baptism by The Holy Spirit compare with The God’s as clarified by His Dearly Beloved Son?
In order to fix the basic facts firmly in our minds, a brief review is always helpful. The word “baptism” is the translation of the Greek noun βάπτισμα (Báhp-teesmah). It comes from the verb βαπτίζω (bahptéez0) translated ‘baptize’ and means “to make whelmed, (i.e. to fully wet).” To whelm means “to overcome utterly, to submerge, to engulf.” βαπτίζω comes from the root word βάπτω(báhpt0) which means “to whelm, i.e. to cover wholly with a fluid.” It is sometimes translated “to dip.” βάπτω is also used to indicate the act of dying, ‘to dye,’ that is to dip a cloth or material completely immersed into a vat of liquid to change its color. The cloth is not changed, only the appearance and color is changed. However, baptism calls for an inner change producing action whereby there are seven factors in connection with each of the seven baptisms:
1. A Particular Message Proclaimed,
2. A Faith Proven,
3. An Action Performed,
4. A Confession Pronounced,
5. A Meaning Projected,
6. An Indication Produced, and
7. An Identification Professed.
…(portion redacted)...
Baptism of Disciples of The Lord Jesus Christ takes place after repentance toward The God and committed trust unto The Lord Jesus Christ, which is proven by a change in lifestyle and persistent obedience to all Scripture and after the disciple has demonstrated that he or she has been crucified together with Christ to Sin, self, and the world
CONCLUSION:
Baptism of a disciple indicates that he or she no longer lives unto self, Sin, and the world, but unto The Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for and in the stead of that disciple and rose again from the dead on the third day. It indicates to the world that this disciple belongs to The Lord Jesus Christ and that he or she has a beneficially good and clear conscience with regard to and before The God. It also indicates the disciple is attending his or her own white funeral and rises with The Lord Jesus Christ to walk in newness of life.
How does your understanding of Baptism by The Holy Spirit compare with The God’s Word? How will you live in the light of what The God’s Word teaches on this subject? What changes will you choose to permit The Holy Spirit to make in your life and your lifestyle? What will you do to conform to the true meaning of Baptism by The Holy Spirit?
SCRIPTURE PASSAGE (from Wittman's “A Precise Translation”*:
“Then Peter expressed to[the face of] them[the ones who heard his sermon at Pentecost and asked what they should do], Repent at once! and be baptized each one of you& by[formula use of ’επι] using the name of Jesus Christ on the basis[cf. 3:19] of forgiveness of sins! And you& shall receive the gratuitous gift of The Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you& and[Is. 54:13; Joel 2:28]to your& /children and to all the ones at a distance[as remote] as many as ever our Lord The God shall summon to [the face of]Himself. And with more other[different kind] words he earnestly testified and entreated, saying, Be saved [away]from this /crooked/generation! So on the one hand the ones, who heartily received his/word delightedly, were baptized. And that /day about three thousand souls were added to[the face of] |them|. Then on the other hand they were persevering[remain in constant readiness] in the doctrine of the apostles and in the fellowship and in the breaking of the bread loaf into pieces and in the prayers” (Acts 2:38-42 APT).
* Soon to be published; “The Gospels – A Precise Translation” freely available on this site
Dr. Wittman will be very pleased if Free Republic turns out to be another place where incisive treatment of thigs hard to understand helps clear up differences to bring greater trust in the Lord and in His Word. Thanks!
Looking at the “precise translation” of Acts 2:38-42 given as a foretaste, I can hardly wait for the whole Bible to be available in the “precise translation.” I will put it right next to my Ronco Vegematic, and use it just as often.
That's an interesting comment. I guess I don't know right offhand what a Ronco Vegematic is, so I don't know whether this is a genuine validation of a careful exegesis of the Koine Greek (which it is), or a mocking reproof on the translation (which I hope it is not).
But I can say that the four Gospels of the AP(recise)T(ranslation) are in print ,and available freely at the home page of Happy Heralds, Inc. for your thorough inspection and comparison with the Koine, the KJV, and other versions. Are you experienced in expository teaching or writing? "The Gospels" includes a complete, accurate chronology of the events of Jesus' ministry which can help in understanding how time flow can assist interpretation.
Also, the appendices include a brief index of Koine grammar which illuminate the precise (but sometimes awkward) readings if the English rendition.
There is a section of interest which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Simon Peter rejected Jesus six separate instances between the Last Supper and the Cross experience, rather than three, as is commonly believed and wrongly taught. That ought to be an eyeopener for the one who is skeptic as to the value of yet another translation of the NT.
Bonjour!
mocking reproof
Six denials, huh? Strange, Jesus says three. Who do you think is more precise?
**Six denials, huh? Strange, Jesus says three. Who do you think is more precise?**
You’re both wrong. That is not using NEA modern math. 4 gospels X 3 denials = 12 (your results may vary)
Jesus said three
good enough for me
Very good on several levels.
Jesus did not say only three denials. At the Last Supper and before a long dissertation, He foretold of three denials before a cock-crow (Jn. 13:38).
Then, while in the street on the way to the Garden of Gethsemane (Jn. 18:1, Mk. 14:26), Jesus foretold that the disciples would be offended. To which Peter again insisted that he would not. Then Jesus predicted three denials from Peter that would take place before a second cock-crow would take place (Mk. 13:30).
The Bible, since it is typically reliable, is correct.
Sigh ...
**Jesus did not say only three denials.**
He said three denials. In response to the Lord’s prophecy of denial, proud Peter was declaring a pledge of allegiance; an attempted contradiction of the Lord’s all knowing mind. The denials were quite the opposite of pledges of allegiance.
Tell us what you think of Mark 14:66-72.
Then review the chronology across all the Gospels to get all six.
With high regard toward the scholarship of the author of APT -- (sigh)
Having perused some of the other “scholarship” of Dr. Fred Wittman that is to be found online I continue to hold it in low regard. His APT is simply the product of a man with too much time on his hands and far, far too high regard for his own understanding.
For example on his “Wheel Card,” (http://www.happyheralds.org/WheelCard.htm) which is to be used after the “Decision Card,” Dr. Fred instructs the holder that the best way to read the Bible is to read Mark first, for the works of the Lord, then John for the words of the Lord, then Acts, for the beginnings of the church, and then Romans for the meaning of all this, then Matthew through Revelation, and only then the whole Bible.
A simple question: If that is the best way to read the Bible, or, let us say, just the New Testament, why did God bother to put Matthew first in the New Testament? If God had been as smart as Dr. Fred Wittman, He would have worked it out that the order would have been Mark, John, Matthew, Luke, or even Mark, John, Acts, Romans, Matthew, Luke.
Imagine what a fool Luke was to presume that people would be reading his gospel account before the Acts of the Apostles (”The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach ...” Acts 1:1). It is a good thing he died before Wittman came along. Otherwise he would have looked like such a fool.
I wonder if the Twelve wrote up “Decision Cards” and “Wheel Cards” in all the different languages the Holy Spirit gave them the ability to speak before departing for all the nations of the earth?
Another area where Dr. Fred’s brilliant insights into the truth of the Bible shines is his chart of spiritual reality. I encourage everyone to take a look:
http://www.happyheralds.com/KingdomofGod-KingdomofHeaven-Chart.htm
I don’t think Jesus Himself understood these things as well as Dr. Fred.
I am going to stop now, I have learned not to argue with people who are smarter than God.
That's good, you've answered part of my original question; although it would be interesting to compare your personal translation/interpretation of the Robinson-Pierpont/TR text quoted to see how much less precise the APT is in those verses quoted (Critical Text has at least 5 variances).
As to Peter's denials, the view you have on the Mk. 14:66-72 passage, of denials occurring after one crow but before a second crow, would be very interesting. Without arguing over it, I would be glad if you could give more clarity on that.
**Tell us what you think of Mark 14:66-72.**
US??? Am I talking to ‘Legion’? JUST KIDDING!
Jesus’prophecy in Mark tells of the cock crowing twice, which it did crow twice in the actual three denials passage. Matthew, Mark, and Luke simply speak of the cock crowing following the three denials. Same story, just more details in Mark. The prophecy of the denials takes place at the end of the last supper in all four gospels.
We can haggle about their exact GPS positioning; were they coming down the steps, but still in the building? were they coming out of the building? were they in the street right out front? What does Luke 22:39 mean by “he came out”....coming out of the upper room, the building itself, or the city to go to the mount of Olives?
How about the miracles? They have variations from gospel to gospel? Speaking of ‘Legion’, the account in Matthew has Jesus encountering two possessed with devils, while in Mark and Luke, only one possessed is mentioned. The location is the same (Gadarenes), the swine possessed and drowned, and it takes place right after the account of Jesus awakening to still the storm. Personally, I happen to think that there were two, but one was much more fierce than the other, and had the name of ‘Legion’.
This type of investigative study can be interesting, but the result is usually not some new earth shaking discovery. But, some people write books for a living. Some of them are interesting, and some aren’t worth the paper they are written on. IMO, the ‘harry potter’ books are a waste of perfectly good trees, and I’m no a tree hugger. And the woman that wrote them got filthy rich making up stories. Like my wife says, “the world is getting everything backwards”.
Oh well,
Lord bless
Yes, and it's not just entertainment literature that makes money while wasting paper (and precious time). The general thrust of writings is to reach the Public's attention to twist its fancy for one's own purpose. I believe one goal behind the hundred or so of new copyrighted English-language "Bible" versions mainly are as an economic enterprise, and one suspects that's the main reason, at least of the publishing industry. Some religious authors seem to be also looking for fame.
That is not true of the charter of Happy Heralds, Incorporated (HHI). One should not minimize that the leading page, and every portion of "The Gospels -- A Precise Translation" proclaims "NOT TO BE SOLD." "Freely ye have received, freely give" is the overriding principle of distribution in the conduct of HHI.
The resources for the ministry are completely subscribed through fellowship in The Gospel. Through the years, hundreds of thousands of incisive, informative tracts (not of the 'hokey' type, but sermonettes inviting to a new life) have been sent across the world, prior to the recent appearance of APT segments. This is a heart-based--not cash-based--ministry toward those who wish to make or become disciples for life. (Packets of such tracts are freely available through application at the HHI site.)
Dr. Wittman, as the author, translator, and radio voice of HHI has lived, with his wife Norma, in a most prudent and frugal fashion, yet honoring The Lord for His Provision. At at age 83, it speaks of time-tested commitment to their early calling. It is not a life that gathers wide acclaim, often even among so-called "believers" whose forte is hypocrisy and sarcasm more than harmony and support.
But referring to his translation "The Gospels," this volume also contains an introductory section featuring a concise summary of the purpose and language of the New Testament, which contents (10 pages) should be clear to one having tenth grade English proficiency.
A longer appendix includes a glossary of Koine grammar terms and examples (39 pages) for the reader who has knowledge of languages, but who is not a student of the Greek.
Another extremely useful exegetic tool is a chronological harmony (60 pages) relating the progression of the Gospels. Every page of the translation gives the time frame of the events described. Certain themes have a connectedness leading one from Gospel to Gospel, back and forth stepwise to give a "blow-by-blow" account of the action taking place. Thus the pastor with less-than-scholarly Greek understanding will get the time-sense and first-century observer's mindset of the developing story which he wishes to relate to his audience.
IMO, the ‘harry potter’ books are a waste of perfectly good trees, and I’m no a tree hugger. And the woman that wrote them got filthy rich making up stories. Like my wife says, “the world is getting everything backwards”.
There is another god who answer the prayers of his children, and honors (temporarily) the dedication and motivation of his committed disciples -- the god of this world--this kosmos. Also IMHO and observation.
US??? Am I talking to ‘Legion’? JUST KIDDING!
Well, it could be, but my intent was the "US" of Free Republic who are waiting with 'bated breath for your next pronouncement? I trust I am not alone--although by this time on this thread, it is more likely that there are not more than two or three. But I think that you can be quite sure that this is not escaping The Heavenly Father's attention, nor that of His opponent.
Thanks for giving your thoughts on this topic.
If you are speaking from the standpoint of an aged pastor that has had to devise a reliable method of guiding hundreds of humans into The Faith and ever-increasing commitment to discipleship; or if over years of missionary work have introduced an aborigine tribe that has never seen a lamb, much less than the concept of substitutionary death and deliverance from sin and death, then your proposals would be something to consider.
Do you have this practical experience? I am not criticizing or debating, just inquiring as to your viewpoint.
Also, I might add it would be interesting as to your level of training and experience in Greek grammar, translation, and exposition? That would help to place the level of qualifications upon which to rely for your judgments offered in this thread.
Perhaps your reading is mistaken. There is no mention of 'Legion' in Matthew, and two were delivered of demons.
while in Mark and Luke, only one possessed is mentioned. The location is the same (Gadarenes),
The location in Matthew is on the east shore of Genessaret, in the land of the Gergasenes (which then existed and is recognized by Biblical geographers). The location of this event is not at the same location as Gadara, which was on the southern tip of the lake near the Jordan outlet, and was not at the same time of year as the one described in Mark and Luke.
the swine possessed and drowned, and it takes place right after the account of Jesus awakening to still the storm.
Well, in this case, Levi recorded that the disturbance of the sea was caused by a great earthquake (along the Jordan Rift, perhaps?), though Jesus rebuked both the winds and the sea. They landed at Gergasa (now called Kursi and recently excavated). The time was in Second Adar (Feb. - Mar.) of 31 AD, about 8 months before the Gadara event.
Personally, I happen to think that there were two, but one was much more fierce than the other, and had the name of ‘Legion’.
A hypothesis that necessitates disbelief in the reliability of the Bible as written, first by the text compilers, then by translators. However, the 'Legion' incident did not occur at Gergasa, according to Scripture. The miracle at Gadara lines up with other events in Heshvan (Oct. - Nov.) of 31 AD. Prior to that, the cause of the waves was a furious wind (Mk 4:37, Lk. 8:23-24), with no mention of an earthquake.
A part of your quandrary arises from the choices taken by the compilers of the Nestle-Aland Critical Text for corrupted manuscripts from which the synthesis of these events became one, rather than two; reflected in translations based on the CT; which do not agree with archaeology. Through the CT variously confusing Gadara with a "Gerasa" and joins them in time, the wielders of "higher criticism" generate a paradox where there is none in the Majority/Byzantine/Textus Receptus tradition.
You may agree or disagree with this analysis, but it would not be wise to ignore it, I believe. So also for Peter's six denials. A facile explanation can be invented, but not accepted by scrutinizing the Faithful Scripture inspired, not by men, but by the Holy Ghost.
Respectfully --
So, according to ‘Levi’(inspired by the Holy Spirit?), the two demon possessed men in Matthew, and the accounts of ‘Legion’ in Mark and Luke are separate stories.
All three cases preceded by a storm at sea:
1. a swamped boat
2. a sleeping Jesus, accompanied by his disciples
3. They shout that they are going to perish
4. Jesus rebukes the storm
5. the disciples say, “What manner of man is this”, that the wind and sea obey him?
The demon possessed man or men:
1. are the first people that meet Jesus upon leaving the ship.
2. they live in the tombs
3. there is a large herd of swine, feeding, in the distance.
4. the devils ask to be allowed into the swine.
5. the swine run violently down a steep place.
6. they drown.
7. the swine herders beat it for town.
8. the people ask Jesus to leave.
Sidenote: My KJV ‘Pilgim Study Bible’s (Oxford Univ. Press) commentary by E. Schyler English and his contributing and consulting editors, disagrees with your analysis.
I still tend to think that in Matthew’s account, one of the possessed was ‘Legion’ and garnered the most attention.
**So also for Peter’s six denials.**
If I had been Peter, who was the boldest of the disciples it seems, I would have been disputing with the Lord more than once, from the upper room to the mount of olives, that I wouldn’t deny Him. The Lord may have told him again, with even more details. The three denials take place in the same time frame, in the same location.
Of the four accounts, only Matthew makes no mention of a means for Peter to warm himself. Only John makes no mention, that after the second denial, the accusers of Peter knew that he was from Galilee, because his speech was of that accent. The ovelap shows consistantsy of the four accounts.
My commentary makes no mention of six denials.
**Dr. Wittman, as the author, translator, and radio voice of HHI has lived, with his wife Norma, in a most prudent and frugal fashion, yet honoring The Lord for His Provision.**
That’s great. Just don’t tell me that the good Dr is infallible. My parents are in their eighties and readily admit that they are still learning.
Here’s something for you and the Dr. to analyze:
The phrase ‘God the Father’ is scriptural, the phrase ‘God the Son’ is not scriptural, neither is the phrase ‘God the Holy Spirit’ scriptural. (I, of course, will be glad to explain why)
Lord bless
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