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To: Zuriel
Has this greater illumination and understanding led you to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? That’s how people’s sins are remitted according to Jesus and his ordained apostles.

Water-baptism is understood here to be an Ordinance of Christ (ex.: Mt. 28:19b). I believe I understand your thrust here, that your suggestion is The God requires one's water-baptism for Him to enact His pardoning of one's burden of sins compiled to the moment of this baptism -- and that this is a precursor to salvation of one's soul? Is that so? Is this a fair statement of the situation you describe?

Thanks!

81 posted on 02/16/2012 3:36:37 AM PST by imardmd1 (Jude 3c "... earnestly contend for The Faith which was once delivered to the saints.")
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To: imardmd1

Thanks for your inquiry of my position on water baptism. Sorry for the delay, as I’m an OTR driver, and have been resting since getting back home yesterday.

Some folks ask, “where in the OT are the examples or symbols of water baptism?” Well, there are some types and shadows:

Gen. 1:2. “And the earth was without form and void” (no life and nothing to support it, DOA, “buried at sea” so to speak); “and darkness was upon the face of the deep” (buriel is darkness, for sure). “And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (if the convicting Spirit of God is not present, water baptism is vain ceremony).

In verse 9, God brought dry land into existance and began to bring life from where there was none. Romans 6:4 says “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father (notice Christ didn’t raise himself up, the Father that was in him “doing the works” and left him to die on the cross, raised him from the dead) even so we also should walk in newness of life.” And Col. 2:12 says basically the same thing.

The Flood
Gen 6:5-8. God repented that he had made man, decides to destroy all mankind, and chooses Noah (who could have said “Lord, thanks for asking me to build the Ark, but ask someone else please. I still believe in you though, and will continue to live in a way pleasing to you”. Well, Noah wouldn’t have survived the flood.
2 Peter 3:6 “Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.” What perished? Sin in the form of man. God washed the planet of sin and began again. (Of course, Satan was waiting to defile Noah’s decendents).

Water baptism is buriel with Jesus Christ and was forshadowed in the story of Joseph, who was thrown into a pit to eventually die. A kid of the goats was killed and blood shed to conceal the crime. But, Joseph was lifted out to eventually live a new life of royalty and power. There was no water in the pit, but the buriel symbolism is present, imho.

Baby Moses was as good as dead, but was placed in the river (in the little ark, so he wouldn’t drown), and was brought forth to a new life.

Led out of Egypt by Moses, the Israelites “were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea..” 1Cor. 10:2,3 (sounds kinda like a shadow of being ‘born of the water and of the Spirit’)

Namaan, the Syrian captain and a leper, didn’t think much of dipping in the Jordan, and was as good as dead before he did so. His rotting flesh was changed “...unto the flesh of a little child, and (talk about types and shadows) he was clean”. 2 Kings 5:8-14.

The priests of the tabernacle in the wilderness had to be washed clean before being of service to God. Ex. 30:20

Jonah was, by his own admission, condemned to death. Was cast into the sea. Three days later he came forth a newly motivated preacher, going faithfully into a situation that his carnal man despised.

Acts 22:16 (Ananias to Saul/Paul) “And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” After a great revival in Samaria (Acts 8:5-25) where people “were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus”, and where Simon the sorcerer offered money for power to give people the Holy Ghost (must’ve been more to receiving the Spirit than seeing people saying “I accept the Lord as my personal saviour”. And the Samaritans believed and were baptized in verse 12, but didn’t receive the Holy Ghost until later, in verse 17. Yes, even though years ago I made fun of it, speaking in tongues is the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost; see Acts 2:4; 10:44-46. And yes, I’m sure there are plenty of people faking it.) The Ethiopian eunuch couldn’t wait to be baptized, knowing from Philips preaching, that it was real important. So, when passing by a ‘certain water’, he orderd the chariot to stop, so that he could immediately be baptized. Acts 8:38-39

It was Jesus Christ, our example of course, who said to John the baptist, at the Jordan river, in Matt. 3:15, “Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness.”
We could say, “Jesus, how could getting dunked in that river make you any more righteous than you already are?” 1 Cor. 1:26-29 “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.”

The Lord didn’t ask us to be baptized, he commanded it: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; also John 3:5. John 3:16 is a great verse, but is in a closing summary of what the Lord had explained in detail in the previous verses of chapter 3. I know there are those that say that the water in John 3:5 is natural birth, citing verse 6. But Jesus didn’t say “that which is water is flesh”. In verse 6 He was simply answering Nicodemas’s carnal question. And there is no mention of water in John 1:13, pertaining to fleshly birth. Peter commanded baptism: Acts 2:38; 10:48; Paul commanded baptism: Acts 19:1-5; Even the keeper of the prison was baptized “he and all his, straightway” (there appeared to be a sense of urgency concerning baptism) Acts 16:31-34. Paul admitted to baptizing Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanas, to the Corinthians, who were busy bragging about what notable preachers baptized them. 1 Cor. 1:12-17.

When the long lost “book of the law” was found and read, King Josiah was shocked, rent his clothes, and said “...great is the wrath of the Lord that is kindled against us...”. He saw to it that they followed God ordinances with greater zeal than any of his predesessors. 2 Kings chaps 22&23. Someone could have said, “King Josiah, my parents didn’t follow these ordinances, are you saying they were not faithful?” Likewise obedience to Acts 2:38 is not to be treated as an option, or not even necessary. The dead are in God’s hands. The living are to hear and obey his word, which is being faithful.

The Christ became that ultimate sacrifice that didn’t simply cover sin, but was able to bring a “new and living way” (Heb. 10:20) that washed the sin away. Jesus said in Luke 24:47 “...that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”. And that came to pass in Jerusalem, on Pentecost, as shown in Acts chp 2, most notably verse 38.

Those that go to the epistles to proclaim the salvation in Jesus Christ, yet deny any power to water baptism in his name, are overlooking the profound fact that the epistles are to read in this context: these letters were written to BELIEVERS. They were already called to be saints (were born again), or were at least witness to it and attending such meetings.

Hopefully this response makes my position somewhat clear. Any other questions or comments will be answered to the best of my ability with the limited time I have.

Thanks and Lord bless.


138 posted on 02/19/2012 1:40:23 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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