And folks who refuse to hear the Holy Spirit inspired Holy Scriptures about their "favorite" gift tend to also get other doctrines wrong, too. Why is there such a fierce defense of tongues? Even to the point of accusing fellow Christians - who agree on ALL the major tenets of the Christian faith - as being pawns of Satan or in league with the enemies of Christ? There is something strange going on whenever this one issue is in dispute and it tells me that those caught up in it are held hostage by their experiences.
When I spoke about judging experiences by Scripture rather than the other way around, what I so earnestly wanted to communicate is that, no matter what our experiences are, are we able to stand back from them and see them objectively in the light of God's word? Apparently, some can't. If someone claimed to have the gift of healing, wouldn't their experiences prove to them and others if, that was indeed their gift, it was genuine? Now, I know that alleged "faith healers" have fabricated and faked healings in order to dupe supporters but, if I came to them for physical healing from, say, blindness, wouldn't I know if I had truly been healed? If I could go from darkness to clear vision because of their laying hands upon me, then I could verify that had happened. Yet, how many of these charlatans have huge "revivals" and tent meetings and people line up 2 blocks long to be healed and they go away disheartened because they went away no better than they came? Their faith is blamed for why they weren't healed instead of who really is to blame - the false teacher giving false hope.
Why is it that these same teachers also claim other gifts such as "slaying people in the Spirit", giving them the gift of tongues, "holy laughter" and other things that are nowhere found in Scripture that are showy and heap praise upon the preacher rather than the Lord? In the same way, tongues can be and are used as a badge of spirituality when Paul said it was the least of the gifts and the others should more earnestly be desired. The Corinthians were admonished by Paul because they were doing just that and his corrections to them were NOT to praise them but to get them to see the seriousness of seeking after glory that belongs to God alone.
Will there be an outpouring of the Spirit in the last days? Yes, Scripture says so. But does this mean He will do that in ways that the devil can fake? I do not believe He will. Will the two witnesses and the 144,000 be given supernatural abilities to lead people to the Messiah? Absolutely! But this will not be a time where it will need to be faked in order to convince people simply because it will be REAL! Signs and wonders WILL happen in those last days - to me, that is speaking of the Tribulation - but we are not there yet. And God will not allow Satan to counterfeit his power - it will be impossible for him to do so anyway. Everything Satan ever did was try to imitate God and every time he failed. He will ALWAYS fail. God's gifts are genuine. But they are HIS to give and to remove when their purpose is fulfilled and when he says that certain ones HAVE BEEN, I accept that no matter what my experiences may say.
Where is the evidence that I refuse to hear Holy Spirit inspired Holy Scriptures about anything? Where is the evidence that tongues is my ‘favorite’ gift? Neither applies to me.
Why is there such a fierce defense of tongues?
I’ll tell you, Dear Sister in Christ. When I see no one else standing up for a valid Biblical Gifting of Holy Spirit greatly useful in these end times, I’m willing to step in the gap.
I COR 14:
5 I wish you could all speak in tongues,
18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you.
I know from Scripture AND from experience that tongues ARE authentic gifts of Holy Spirit for anointed use in our era.
I also know that because God uses them—particularly initially—to tweak up folks’ humility—that satan is particularly doubly eager to trash them every way he can.
I’m happy to support something of Holy Spirit he’s so intent on corrupting, counterfeiting and trashing.
Even to the point of accusing fellow Christians - who agree on ALL the major tenets of the Christian faith - as being pawns of Satan or in league with the enemies of Christ?
Wellllll . . . I prefer to avoid accusing loved ones of anything negative. However, love also, in my construction on reality, includes being candid about loved ones in error or headed for a ditch.
And when folks seem to be gratuitously taking potshots at an authentic gift of Holy Spirit—without anyone standing up to be counted in behalf of Holy Spirit’s work—then I’ll be glad & honored to do it.
There is something strange going on whenever this oneissue is in dispute and it tells me that those caught up in it are held hostage by their experiences.
Nonsense, in my case. I consider it, Biblically, a secondary priority but an authentic gifting of Holy Spirit of significant potency in behalf of The Kingdom.
The vigor and zealousness comes from so many on Holy Spirit’s side seeming to be so comfortable taking pot-shots at an authentic gift of Holy Spirit.
When I spoke about judging experiences by Scripture rather than the other way around, what I so earnestly wanted to communicate is that, no matter what our experiences are, are we able to stand back from them and see them objectively in the light of God's word? Apparently, some can't.
True. Some can’t. Not my problem.
Seems to me some have so much mystifying hostility to an authentic gifting of Holy Spirit that THEY can’t stand back and see them objectively in the light of God’s Word.
If someone claimed to have the gift of healing, wouldn't their experiences prove to them and others if, that was indeed their gift, it was genuine?
Of course.
Now, I know that alleged "faith healers" have fabricated and faked healings in order to dupe supporters but, if I came to them for physical healing from, say, blindness, wouldn't I know if I had truly been healed? If I could go from darkness to clear vision because of their laying hands upon me, then I could verify that had happened.
Of course.
Yet, how many of these charlatans have huge "revivals" and tent meetings and people line up 2 blocks long to be healed and they go away disheartened because they went away no better than they came? Their faith is blamed for why they weren't healed instead of who really is to blame - the false teacher giving false hope.
Sadly horribly true.
Thankfully, Curry Blake is greatly different:
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Healing/JGL/JGL_Ministries.htm
Great teaching and practice . . . and humorous as well.
Why is it that these same teachers also claim other gifts such as "slaying people in the Spirit", giving them the gift of tongues, "holy laughter" and other things that are nowhere found in Scripture that are showy and heap praise upon the preacher rather than the Lord?
Some such are hokey; some aren’t. Some are counterfeit; some aren’t. Some such are demonic; some aren’t.
Mostly, I agree with you on such scores—particularly about exalting a teacher rather than The Lord.
In the same way, tongues can be and are used as a badge of spirituality when Paul said it was the least of the gifts and the others should more earnestly be desired. The Corinthians were admonished by Paul because they were doing just that and his corrections to them were NOT to praise them but to get them to see the seriousness of seeking after glory that belongs to God alone.
Of course tongues can be so used. So can preaching. So can teaching. So can healing. So can prophecy.
Yes, Paul gave the Corinthians stern exhortations about the abuses. HOWEVER, THEY WERE GETTING THINGS DONE VIA HOLY SPIRIT’S GIFTS—which was more than some other groups. LOL.
Will there be an outpouring of the Spirit in the last days? Yes, Scripture says so. But does this mean He will do that in ways that the devil can fake? I do not believe He will.
I don’t know that God’s criteria is things that the devil can or can’t fake. Some things he can and many things he can’t fake—just as in Moses day. God’s criteria is to do what He wants to do—period.
Will the two witnesses and the 144,000 be given supernatural abilities to lead people to the Messiah? Absolutely! But this will not be a time where it will need to be faked in order to convince people simply because it will be REAL!
There seems to be an implication that Holy Spirit’s giftings today are extremely rarely real. I don’t find that true. It depends on where one looks. We have healings routinely in our congregation. We have authentic prophetic ‘words’ in our congregation that are borne out later or by those receiving such.
Signs and wonders WILL happen in those last days - to me, that is speaking of the Tribulation - but we are not there yet. And God will not allow Satan to counterfeit his power - it will be impossible for him to do so anyway. Everything Satan ever did was try to imitate God and every time he failed. He will ALWAYS fail. God's gifts are genuine. But they are HIS to give and to remove when their purpose is fulfilled and when he says that certain ones HAVE BEEN, I accept that no matter what my experiences may say.
There’s no Biblical basis for asserting that God is holding Holy Spirit’s giftings in the closet until Tribulation. None.
Certainly the giftings are for God’s purposes and to glorify Jesus. Certainly satan will always ultimately fail.
However, leading up to the Tribulation and during the Tribulation—there may be some interesting Mt Carmel type confrontations between God’s agents and satan’s.
I think, usually, it will be no contest—particularly for those with discernment—to know who’s manifestations belong to whom . . . and who’s winning. Certainly that’s to be the case, ultimately.
Thanks for your kind reply. I respect you and care for you.
1 Corinthians 14:22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.
And yet here we have believers by the churchful claim that tongues is the sign of the filling of the Holy Spirit to and for believers. It's become a status symbol for the have's compared to the have not's; a matter of spiritual pride.
Tongues is NOT a sign for believers. Those who claim so are wrong because they are contradicting the clear teaching of Scripture. Also, there is not ONE verse of Scripture anywhere that says that tongues is the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that it's meant to be or be used as a prayer language, or that there's any more power in praying in tongues than praying in one's native language. It's all based on experience, ie traditions of men.
1 Corinthians 14:13-19 13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
In addition is the wrong teaching that every believer should have the gift of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:11 All these (gifts) are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
When a gift given to believers for the edification of the church becomes a status symbol, it's well past time to reevaluate what the church is teaching.
Additionally, Curry Blake has very unorthodox teaching on signs. That is that they are meant to validate or verify the message of the gospel of the kingdom, therefore what we've been doing, practicing them within the church, is wrong. They need to be being practiced out in the world before unbelievers to confirm the message we bear. (A very brief summary).
There is danger in accepting EVERYTHING as from God all in the name of nor wanting to reject what really is from God. But I agree with bb here. What God does will stand the test. For my part, I don't accept what I see on television as genuine because there is simply no way of knowing or verifying it.
I find the lifestyles, some of the teaching, and many of the methods of most of the so-called charismatic evangelists absolutely unScriptural, therefore I feel no obligation to believe that the miracles and tongues they claim are genuine.