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To: Zuriel; metmom
The logical conclusion is that the emphasis of water baptism in the NAME of Jesus, and it resulting in remission of sins, is that that is when he applies his blood to that persons soul. How else can it remit sins as he says it will.

No, it is NOT a logical conclusion that water baptism is when the blood of Christ is applied to a soul and sins are remitted. To be baptized "for the remission of sins" simply means it is symbolic of what happened by faith. Jesus said his blood was shed "for the remission of sins" (Matt. 26:28) and in Acts 10:43 it says, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Ephesians 1:7 says, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins, according to the riches of his grace". Remission of sins means the forgiveness of sins. It is ONLY by faith - the act of will that believes and trusts in the promises of God. Belief, then is not a "work" in the sense of it being a deed or act, but one of receiving the gift of God. The way you are saying it, it sounds like until one is physically water baptized, he is not spiritually saved. Add to that the contention that even those who ARE water baptized are not saved unless there is saving faith first.

Titus 3:5-7 says, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

The act of being water baptized is a "righteous" thing we should do, because it is an act of obedience demonstrating an identification with Christ's death, burial and resurrection, but the act itself is NOT what saves us. The "washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit" has been poured out on us through God's grace when we first believed - it is not even talking about water baptism here.

You can believe what you want, of course, but know that any good works or deeds added to faith makes salvation by grace void and changes it to merit based. That is exactly why those religions that teach water baptism is required to be saved will also add other works into the mix in order to STAY saved. And no matter how you cut it, that is no longer grace that saves. One more thing...do you really believe that water baptism "saves" a person? Can they become "unsaved" by their deeds? If someone has accepted Christ as Savior but gets killed on his way to be water baptized, is he saved anyway in your religion?

I know you're probably glad to be off the road for a bit. We had some trucker friends and they HATED winter driving. Thanks for including me in the discussion.

165 posted on 02/20/2012 9:57:21 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums

What a great thread of debating and searching for truth as well as discovering it. Thank you for your posts as always.
Am in agreement...and following.


279 posted on 02/23/2012 7:10:05 PM PST by caww
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