In context, He is talking about being born physically to Nicodemus. He never said that one had to be baptized. He used the word elsewhere so if He meant baptism in john 3, then He could have said it.
In Matthew, all He commands is that the disciples baptize. He never said that it was a requirement for salvation in that book.
The passage in Mark is controversial as to its authenticity and I see LOTS of people with lots to lose in their doctrine and theology hanging a lot of emphasis on a passage of Scripture of uncertain origin. I suppose that you also agree with the rest of that quote in Mark where Jesus finishes up by saying.....
Mark 16:15-18 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Therefore I trust that you also hold to the belief that all believers will speak in tongues, lay hands on the sick and see them healed, will pick up serpents with their hands and no deadly poison will hurt them.
I've noticed that certain groups like to use that passage to support their doctrine of baptism being necessary for salvation and ignore the rest of it (the signs that follow), while the charismatics like to use that verse to support the signs that follow but deny the necessity for baptism. Both groups pick which part of the passage to allow and disallow.
I can't recall that I've seen anyone hold to ALL that it teaches, that is the necessity of baptism for salvation and the signs which are to follow.
Salvation is a GIFT (Eph 2:8-9) and there is nothing you can do to earn it or qualify for it. There is passage after passage in the gospels where Jesus says that all one has to do is believe. The tax collector at the temple simply cried out for God's mercy and Jesus said that he want away justified. The thief on the cross didn't have time to be baptized.
Galatians 2:15-21 15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Baptism has become a work which people have added to faith in Christ so that they can feel like they did something to earn God's favor or that somehow they contributed to their own salvation somewhere, but all that does is leave room to boast. If the works of the Law didn't save, then no new work that man has decided to add to faith is going to save either.
Hebrews 6:1,2 speaks of the "doctrine of baptisms" (plural). From http://www.scribd.com/doc/21641047/Baptism-or-Mikvah:
In a similar way, Rabbinic literature uses the term "born again"to refer to at least 8 different occurrences, each of them a life changing experience:
•When a Gentile converts to become an Israelite (Hebrew).
•Immersion of repentance (John’s baptism), similar to the previous point.
•At age 13 when a Hebrew boy chooses to embrace God's covenant and be numbered with the believers.
•When an individual gets married.
•When an individual is crowned king
•As a disciple of a Teacher/Rabbi, you are immersed in his name to show that you follow him.
•When an individual becomes a Rabbi (Teacher).
•When an individual becomes the head of a rabbinical school.
The water is not used to remove any physical uncleanness, but rather as a symbolic spiritual cleansing and rebirth. The mikvah symbolizes moving from one state to another - from ritual impurity to ritual purity, from one phase of life to another.
When we respond to the message of the Gospel through repentance and faith, the ceremony of baptism is then done as a confirmation and testimony of the inward change. The ceremony, in and of itself, is not what imparts spiritual cleansing but the faith and trust of Jesus Christ by God's grace. Therefore, baptism is not what saves us nor does it cause the remission of sins, only the blood of Christ is able to do that.
Glad my driving got rerouted for a couple of days. I shall be able to respond tonight, and possibly tomorrow night, as well.
boatbums, since you agree with metmoms, I’ve invited you in this response, and have included the Hebrews 6:1,2 passage you chose to point out.
**Born of water = physical birth.**
That’s man made tradition, in an effort to discount the Lord explicit commands for baptism. The comparison of natural and spiritual birth are clearly explained two chapters earlier: “which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” John 1:13. No mention of water in that verse.
**In context, He is talking about being born physically to Nicodemus.**
No he’s not. Give the Lord credit for knowing that he didn’t have to tell Nicodemas, that for a man to be born of the Spirit, he first had to born naturally.
An interesting fact to consider concerning John 3:5: The is no comma in the phrase “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit”.
**In Matthew, all He commands is that the disciples baptize. He never said that it was a requirement for salvation in that book.**
“He never said..”?
No, he just said to teach ALL nations, baptizing them....
**The passage in Mark is controversial as to its authenticity**
Really? While you’re at it, why don’t you go ahead and place Acts 2:38 in the same questionable authenticity category.
Are you saying that there are no miracles in the church today? I’ll tell you that there are none where there is no faith.
**Therefore I trust that you also hold to the belief that all believers will speak in tongues**
How do you interpret John 3:8? “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou HEAREST the SOUND thereof, but CANST NOT TELL whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is BORN of the SPIRIT.”
When someone says they accept the Lord as their savior, I understand it, and know where it came from. When Peter and John laid hands on the Samaritans, they received the Holy Ghost. Simon the sorcerer, who had witnessed the miracles that Philip did (and didn’t offer money for that power) offered money to Peter and John for the power to give people the Holy Ghost. Yes, I believe he had witnessed them speaking in tongues. The most unruly member of the body tamed by the Spirit of God. Are there people faking it? No doubt, but they are dealt with, one way or the other.
**Salvation is a GIFT (Eph 2:8-9) and there is nothing you can do to earn it or qualify for it. There is passage after passage in the gospels where Jesus says that all one has to do is believe.**
Do you see your own contradiction......”there is nothing you can do........all one has to do..”?
You have to believe, he made that plain, and a couple of my favorite verses are: He that believeth on me AS THE SCRIPTURE hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38,39
**Galatians 2:15-21**
From Romans thru Revelation, those letters were written to the church in that city, and to the church as a whole. Most start out in the first chapter refering to those ‘called to be saints’ or ‘the saints at...’. They are written to people that have already been born again, or people that already know what makes one born again.
While Hebrews doesn’t start out with a similar phrase, the writer reminds them of their beginnings in 6:1,2:
“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection; not laying AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement.”
The people that the writer is talking to already have their ‘foundation’ laid. They followed the ‘principles of the doctrine of Christ’, which happens to include the ‘doctrine of baptisms’.
The logical conclusion is that the emphasis of water baptism in the NAME of Jesus, and it resulting in remission of sins, is that that is when he applies his blood to that persons soul. How else can it remit sins as he says it will.