Posted on 02/02/2012 6:27:03 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
And that's where your zeal, hubris and delusion fails you.
The history I read was written by those who DID THE DEED and defeated the control of your church over the minds of men.
Unfortunately you have not found an escape.
The reason these "WASPs" choose not to relate these documents is that, on the whole, they found them corrupt...and lip service to liberty while real liberty was happening in SPITE of the authors and their inspiration.
Thomas Jefferson said it best:
"They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion".
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
LMAO "Liberation Theology" where did that come from?
Bye, I will not post again on this thread because the reaction is the sole reason it was posted. This is really stupid.
That's not an accurate statement.
IF the WASP founders established a 'democracy', they would have so stated. The foundation was established in Genesis 1:1. Interestingly not one WORD posted in this attempt to take 'credit' for the founding of this nation comes from Scripture. Sadly, the WORDS of the prophets go unheeded and the nations deteriorate. The majority of the inhabitants of this earth are NOT going to like what is yet ahead.
The founders intent was summed up in very concise simple words RIGHTS endowed by the CREATOR, 'life', 'liberty', and 'the pursuit of happiness do not come from man, religions, or government democracies. Here is the problem, one must be learned in what the CREATOR required to be given these RIGHTS... and it is basic Constitutional 101 the law of Moses was their guide. NOT religious philosophy enslaving the life and liberty to religious organizations for their profit.
How about reading and trying to refute the original post, instead of spouting off anti-Catholic drivel.
The Rites of the Catholic Church [Catholic Caucus]
One and Many Churches (origins of the Church)
THE RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- There are many!
(Cardinal) Newman on Rites and Ceremonies
Easy. It came from commies trying to infiltrate and subvert the Church. Because they know the Church is their only real enemy in this world.
Fortunately, its been condemned, and no committed Catholic falls for "Liberation Theology," only those "c"atholics looking for political cover for their heterodox progressive beliefs.
Exactly.
Yet for all the frothing, slobbering, knee-jerk hatred, there’s not a single rational thought represented by these anti-Catholics.
"We're not called to be successful. We're only called to be faithful."
--Mother Teresa
The same people who believe America is founded on Roman Catholic principles, must also teach their children the Puritans, Pilgrims, and Anabaptists were really Catholics.
(Puritans based their theology upon Purifying their theology of all RCC ritualism.)
Catholicism was a cultish minority in the American colonies. Those with English leanings might have favored Anglican perspectives, but if we remember our history, a Civil War was fought to separate ourselves from that form of government.
Actually, the funny thing is that “liberation theology” is the Catholic name for “the social gospel,” a thoroughly Protestant movement which dominates mainline Protestantism to this day, but was wholly crushed by Pope John Paul II and then-Grand Inquisitor (to use a colorful anachronistic title) Ratzinger.
The social gospel is alien to Catholic lands, but unfortunately, several major Catholic universities sold their birthright for Protestant porridge, when the Protestant and deeply anti-Catholic American higher education establishment set forth standards of accreditation that had an inherently Protestant/Enlightement definition of academic freedom. Eventually, funded by Protestant and masonic sources, a glut of Catholic priests in the 1960s was dispatched to as-yet unevangelized lands which were identified as Catholic due to their Iberian heritage, but long dominated by masonic tyrrants, such as Mexico, Brazil, and Chile. They carried with them their Protestant “social gospel” theological indoctrination.
How about reading and trying to refute the original post, instead of spouting off anti-Catholic drivel.
To perpetuate the myth that the U.S.A. is a democracy is dangerous and leads to articles such as this.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2839948/posts
p.s. it has a barf alert.
"The right of deposing kings is inherent in the supreme sovereignty which the popes, as vice-regents of Christ, exercise over all Christian nations." (Cardinal Henry Manning, 1892, Archbishop of Westminster. The Jesuits in History, Hector MacPherson, 1900, pg. 115)
"And just as the end at which the Church aims is by far the noblest of ends, so is its authority the most exalted of all authority, nor can it be looked upon as inferior to the civil power, or in any manner dependent upon it." (Pope Leo XIII in Encyclical Letters, pg 112)
"Such, too, is the purpose of the seizing of the temporal power, conferred many centuries ago by Divine Providence on the Bishop of Rome , that he might without let or hindrance use the authority conferred by Christ for the eternal welfare of the nations." (Pope Leo XIII, Evils Affecting Modern Society Encyclical, pg. 11)
"The Rome of the middle ages claimed universal monarchy. The modern Church of Rome has abandoned nothing, retracted nothing." (The Present Crisis of the Holy See, H. E. Manning, D.D., 1861, pg. 75)
"The Pope by Divine right, hath spiritual and temporal power as supreme King of the world. The Pope of Rome, as head of the Papal government, claims absolute sovereignty and supremacy over all the governments of the Earth. So that, he can impose taxes on all Christians and destroy towns and cities for the preservation of Christianity." (Thomas Aquinas, Romanism as a World Power, Luther Kauffman, 1922, pg. 30)
"On account of the excellence of his supreme dignity, he is called Bishop of Bishops, Ordinary of Ordinaries, Universal Bishop of the Church, Bishop or Diocesan of the whole world, Divine Monarch, Supreme Emperor and King of Kings." (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, 1763)
I'll leave to you, and those less enlightened on this post, Pope John Paul II's reflection on the founding principles of the U.S.A. He had a deeper understanding than many Americans, and apparently many posters here at FR.
It gives me great pleasure to welcome you to the Vatican for presentation of the Letters of Credence by which you are appointed Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the United States of America to the Holy See. I am grateful for the greetings which you convey from President Clinton, and I reciprocate with good wishes to him and the American people.
You represent a nation that plays a crucial role in world events today. The United States carries a weighty and far-reaching responsibility, not only for the well-being of its own people, but for the development and destiny of peoples throughout the world. With a deep sense of participation in the joys and hopes, the sorrows, anxieties, and aspirations of the entire human family, the Holy See is a willing partner in every effort to build a world of genuine peace and justice for all. I am certain that, following upon the good work of your predecessors, you will apply your many personal talents and your long experience of public life to strengthening understanding and cooperation between us.
The Founding Fathers of the United States asserted their claim to freedom and independence on the basis of certain "self-evident" truths about the human person: truths which could be discerned in human nature, built into it by "nature’s God." Thus they meant to bring into being, not just an independent territory, but a great experiment in what George Washington called "ordered liberty": an experiment in which men and women would enjoy equality of rights and opportunities in the pursuit of happiness and in service to the common good. Reading the founding documents of the United States, one has to be impressed by the concept of freedom they enshrine: a freedom designed to enable people to fulfill their duties and responsibilities toward the family and toward the common good of the community. Their authors clearly understood that there could be no true freedom without moral responsibility and accountability, and no happiness without respect and support for the natural units or groupings through which people exist, develop, and seek the higher purposes of life in concert with others.
The American democratic experiment has been successful in many ways. Millions of people around the world look to the United States as a model in their search for freedom, dignity, and prosperity. But the continuing success of American democracy depends on the degree to which each new generation, native-born and immigrant, makes its own the moral truths on which the Founding Fathers staked the future of your Republic. Their commitment to build a free society with liberty and justice for all must be constantly renewed if the United States is to fulfill the destiny to which the Founders pledged their "lives . . . fortunes . . . and sacred honor."
I am happy to take note of your words confirming the importance that your government attaches, in its relations with countries around the world, to the promotion of human rights and particularly to the fundamental human right of religious freedom, which is the guarantee of every other human right. Respect for religious conviction played no small part in the birth and early development of the United States. Thus John Dickinson, Chairman of the Committee for the Declaration of Independence, said in 1776: "Our liberties do not come from charters; for these are only the declaration of preexisting rights. They do not depend on parchments or seals; but come from the King of Kings and the Lord of all the earth." Indeed it may be asked whether the American democratic experiment would have been possible, or how well it will succeed in the future, without a deeply rooted vision of divine providence over the individual and over the fate of nations.
As the year 2000 draws near and Christians prepare to celebrate the bi-millennium of the birth of Christ, I have appealed for a serious examination of conscience regarding the shadows that darken our times. Nations and states too can make this a time of reflection on the spiritual and moral conditions of their success in promoting the integral good of their people. It would truly be a sad thing if the religious and moral convictions upon which the American experiment was founded could now somehow be considered a danger to free society, such that those who would bring these convictions to bear upon your nation’s public life would be denied a voice in debating and resolving issues of public policy. The original separation of church and state in the United States was certainly not an effort to ban all religious conviction from the public sphere, a kind of banishment of God from civil society. Indeed, the vast majority of Americans, regardless of their religious persuasion, are convinced that religious conviction and religiously informed moral argument have a vital role in public life.
No expression of today’s commitment to liberty and justice for all can be more basic than the protection afforded to those in society who are most vulnerable. The United States of America was founded on the conviction that an inalienable right to life was a self-evident moral truth, fidelity to which was a primary criterion of social justice. The moral history of your country is the story of your people’s efforts to widen the circle of inclusion in society, so that all Americans might enjoy the protection of law, participate in the responsibilities of citizenship, and have the opportunity to make a contribution to the common good. Whenever a certain category of people—the unborn or the sick and old—are excluded from that protection, a deadly anarchy subverts the original understanding of justice. The credibility of the United States will depend more and more on its promotion of a genuine culture of life, and on a renewed commitment to building a world in which the weakest and most vulnerable are welcomed and protected.
As they have done throughout your country’s history, the Catholic people in the United States will continue to make an important contribution to the development of American culture and society. The recently completed Special Assembly of the Synod of Bishops for America has highlighted the range and variety of activity which Catholics, out of commitment to Christ, undertake for the betterment of society. May this transforming and elevating work continue to flourish for the good of individuals, the strengthening of families, and the benefit of the American people as a whole.
Your Excellency, these are some of the thoughts prompted by your presence here as your country’s diplomatic representative. These reflections evoke a prayer: that your country will experience a new birth of freedom, freedom grounded in truth and ordered to goodness. Thus will the American people be able to harness their boundless spiritual energy in service of the genuine good of all humanity. Be assured that the various Offices of the Holy See will be ready to assist you in the fulfillment of your mission. Upon you and upon the people of the United States of America I cordially invoke abundant divine blessings.
And when Jesus returns to earth to set up his millennial kingdom, I will happily rejoice to bow my knee to his sovereignty. Just not the chaps who think they stand in his stead.
Really? I find it fascinating that anyone who dares disagree with the author’s opinionated premise that “Democracy is not a child of the Reformation” is labeled with promoting hatred, derision, and overt bigotry; hate-mongering, frothing, slobbering, knee-jerk hatred, not having a single rational thought represented and anti-Catholics. A little bit of over reaction there???
I have nothing against someone disagreeing with the assertion that “Democracy is not a child of the Reformation.” I noted only that the counter-arguments failed to address the argument at all, and instead carried on with hatred, derision, and overt bigotry. If you care to make a better argument, feel free to. I note you’ve tried to at least argue by counter-example, but that your source for what Catholics have said on the matter includes a passage taken from a man arguing that Catholics should have no civil liberties, and shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
The Magna Carta was written by Catholics, to Catholics, for Catholics. No other Christian faiths existed at the time of the Magna Carta, so I fail to see your point.
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