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To: Lera; metmom

Don’t you love it when you hit post instead of spell check?

As I understand your comment, “So what is the intent ? I don’t trust you enough to go directly to you ?”

it is not about trust. Catholics have the Virgin and the saints as someone to talk comfortably with. As metmom said, we all need people to talk to.

God is always there. But, sometimes, he is a little intimidating - kind of like facing your Dad with a report card full of D’s. He loves us, yes, but he is going to be very disappointed in us.
The saints are a way of hiding behind someone while we present that report card to Him. A way of making it a little easier to admit our sins and failings. A way of talking and admitting our sins to ourselves.

God always knows what we have done and what we need. He doesn’t need us to tell him. He needs us to tell ourselves. That is - or can be - very hard to do, as we are pretty good at fooling ourselves.

Now, I’ll not deny there are some Catholics that, to my mind, get very close to idolatry, especially about the Blessed Virgin. Or relics, for that matter.
Ain’t none of us perfect.

Hope that helps a little!


255 posted on 02/03/2012 11:34:51 PM PST by EnglishCon
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To: EnglishCon

Ever stop to think that God might see it differently ?
Ever stop to think that he might just see it as you are depending on everything else but him ?
Ever stop to think that you are putting this before him ?

Yeah hitting post before spell check sucks
I do it all the time (you’ll get used to it lol )
especially when I am on my lap top and can not wear my glasses (I have astigmatism and my glasses are set for the distance from the monitor on my desktop - without them my vision is slightly fuzzy ) I keep hitting the wrong keys too on this thing ... grrr hate the straight keyboard .


257 posted on 02/03/2012 11:51:37 PM PST by Lera
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To: EnglishCon
Now, I’ll not deny there are some Catholics that, to my mind, get very close to idolatry, especially about the Blessed Virgin. Or relics, for that matter. Ain’t none of us perfect.

Nice post, EC. It brought to mind a passage written by a countryman of yours, C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity. I think the point you're making is similar to his, in that we humans (all of us) can be intemperate (or idolatrous) about a great variety of things ... not just the more 'obvious' ones.

Now without further ado, here is Mr Lewis on the virtue of Temperance:

One great piece of mischief has been done by the modern restriction of the word Temperance to the question of drink. It helps people to forget that you can be just as intemperate about lots of other things. A man who makes his golf or his motor-bicycle the centre of his life, or a woman who devotes all her thoughts to clothes or bridge or her dog, is being just as ‘intemperate’ as someone who gets drunk every evening. Of course, it does not show on the outside so easily: bridge-mania or golf-mania do not make you fall down in the middle of the road. But God is not deceived by externals.

259 posted on 02/04/2012 12:04:33 AM PST by annie laurie (All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost)
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To: EnglishCon; Lera
it is not about trust. Catholics have the Virgin and the saints as someone to talk comfortably with. As metmom said, we all need people to talk to.

But we have each other. We don't need to pray to saints.

When someone bypasses other living on the earth human beings it denies them the privilege of being Christ to those who are hurting.

God is always there. But, sometimes, he is a little intimidating - kind of like facing your Dad with a report card full of D’s. He loves us, yes, but he is going to be very disappointed in us.

I disagree. I think that reflects an inaccurate perception of who God is. I struggled with that for YEARS. God is not about judgment and condemnation for His children. He is their "Abba" father. He is daddy to them.

Worrying about God being disappointed with us and our sin puts our relationship with Him on the level of performance based perfectionism. I don't believe for a minute that He's "disappointed" with us. He loves us with all the capacity of His being, even those who choose condemnation. He can be grieved, as Scripture states, but disappointed? I don't believe that for a minute.

Yes, He's the judge to those who are rebellious, but to those who choose to become His child, He is mercy and compassion and steadfast love.

Romans 8:1, 14-15 1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

When you look at how Jesus related to those around Him, He was firm with those rebelled (the Pharisees) and compassionate with those who received Him (tax collectors and prostitutes)

Matter of fact, look at the contrast, those who sinned and failed were the ones who we would think have to worry about disappointing God and having to have to worry about going to the principals office (so to speak) compared to those who were practically flawless in keeping the Law.

When Peter denied Jesus three times, how did Jesus respond? When Thomas doubted the resurrection, what was Jesus response?

Jesus always restored gently and with compassion. We should not fear going to Him to the point of feeling that we need to go through someone else first.

God always knows what we have done and what we need. He doesn’t need us to tell him. He needs us to tell ourselves. That is - or can be - very hard to do, as we are pretty good at fooling ourselves.

You nailed it there. Confession is for our benefit. It's not like we're telling God something He doesn't already know. The honesty helps us and I don't believe that God is disappointed with us. Honestly, I think it's more of an affront to Him to feel like we can't come to Him directly than the sin we're coming to Him about.

One of the most comforting verses in the Bible is Psalm 103:14

Psalm 103:6-14 6 The LORD works righteousness and justice for all who are oppressed. 7 He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the people of Israel. 8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.

9 He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger forever. 10 He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities.

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him; 12 as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.

13 As a father shows compassion to his children, so the LORD shows compassion to those who fear him. 14 For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.

266 posted on 02/04/2012 5:57:19 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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