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To: D-fendr

>> “No, it’s teased out by some using some parts of Paul and not others and then ignoring contradictions in other scripture.” <<

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There is only one verse in the entire Bible (in James) that can be twisted and contorted to support your fallacy of works based salvation. That is in contrast to the entire New Testament that says works based salvation is the lie of Satan.
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448 posted on 01/20/2012 12:16:53 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor
There is only one verse in the entire Bible (in James) that can be twisted and contorted to support your fallacy of works based salvation. That is in contrast to the entire New Testament that says works based salvation is the lie of Satan.

Yeah, but one verse makes the whole rest of the Bible wrong, dontcha know?

But that's what they're good at because every major, distinguishing Catholic doctrine that they use Scripture to support falls into that same category. ONE verse taken out of context and misinterpreted which contradicts chapters worth of other teaching, including the words of Jesus Himself.

They do it for the eucharist, the papacy, authority to forgive sins and keep people out of heaven, you name it.

453 posted on 01/20/2012 12:43:22 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: editor-surveyor
There is only one verse in the entire Bible (in James) that can be twisted and contorted to support your fallacy of works based salvation.

If you have to argue against the false dichotomy of Salvation by works alone, then you must not have much of an argument.

There are other verses that belie Sola Fide; for example, just try reading *all* that Paul teaches about salvation, eternal life, judgement etc., (like the one I posted earlier) not just your one Pauline verse that still does not say "you are saved by faith alone."

The only place in scripture that has the words "faith alone" says "not by faith alone." Your doctrine is just not there unless you "interpret" it in or you follow a tradition that does.

"Twisted and contorted" regarding James would describe getting Sola Fide from this:

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?i If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?m

For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


457 posted on 01/20/2012 12:48:25 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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