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To: D-fendr

If it were to be alone an underpinning, then perhaps. But it is not alone. Neither was it (reliance of canonical text foremost) demonstrated to not have been employed by some of the early patristric fathers. By which I mean, they themselves used the Gospels and the writings of Paul, along with Old Covenant texts taken together as work of record, to put down various heresies, imaginative writings, and guidance for confessions of faith which could put to rest controversy as it arose.

The collection of statements themselves were not the entire underpinning of the reformer's thoughts, expressed fears or worry at some point by Luther notwithstanding, for much of the earlier tradition was brought along in more muted fashion, as we are here on the pages of FR reminded of from time to time.

They kept the Apostle's creed, or so I'm presently persuaded to believe.

At some other juncture, perhaps I should divulge once again some of mine own testimony, how I came to be baptized by both water and the Spirit, some of mine experiences after that --- and notably, how this all occurred outside of the narrow confines of Catholicism, or any much knowledge of my own concerning what differences there are between it, and what came to be passed down through "reform" minded religious schools of thought.

These things came about not because I myself was devout or worthy, but through the grace of God.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Other than the being raised up on the last day part, the previous portions I have experienced despite possible errors on the part of the reformers, and far outside any formally present day "Catholic" setting.

Consider if you will, how you yourself may view things to be, if such had occurred with yourself in the same manner. What might the ramifications of that be, in light of various (as critics would term them) Romish claims?

337 posted on 01/19/2012 5:17:43 PM PST by BlueDragon (on'a $10 horse an' a $40 saddle I'm going up the trail with them longhorn cattle c'm uh ty-yi-yipy-)
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To: BlueDragon; rzman21
Consider if you will, how you yourself may view things to be, if such had occurred with yourself in the same manner.

For sure, it can seem to us many ways, the way of total surrender, the way of preordained and destined, the way of guidance, or an unseen hand, or God forcing us to choose, to decide what we truly follow. Many ways, many people: God comes to us where we are.

But while this makes for good and valuable testimony, and while it is useful in teaching, it does not say how it must be for all, it doesn't make a theology or soteriology (unless Qué será, será is a plan of salvation.)

And yes, certainly the Church Fathers relied very heavily on scripture, still do. But in times of dueling verses capable of different meaning, they sought what was coherent and consistent of the faith taught by Christ to His Apostles.

And this is where the authority lies: in the Apostolic Church. If it lie in sola scriptura it lies with the individual's authority, which is where, IMHO, all the solas originated.

thanks very much for your courteous reply.

338 posted on 01/19/2012 5:30:18 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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