Posted on 01/18/2012 3:19:15 PM PST by NYer
.- Pope Benedict XVI said today that achieving Christian unity requires more than “cordiality and cooperation” and that it must be accompanied by interior conversion.
“Faith in Christ and interior conversion, both individual and communal, must constantly accompany our prayer for Christian unity,” said the Pope to over 8,000 pilgrims gathered in the Vatican’s Paul VI Audience Hall on Jan. 18.
The Pope’s comments mark the start of the 2012 Week of Prayer for Christian Unity that runs until Jan. 25. It will be observed by over 300 Christian churches and ecclesial communities around the globe.
The Pope asked for “the Lord in a particular way to strengthen the faith of all Christians, to change our hearts and to enable us to bear united witness to the Gospel.”
In this way, he said, they “will contribute to the new evangelization and respond ever more fully to the spiritual hunger of the men and women of our time.”
The Pope explained that the concept of a week of prayer for Christian unity was initiated in 1908 by Paul Wattson, an Episcopalian minister from Maryland. One year later, he became a Catholic and was subsequently ordained to the priesthood.
Pope Benedict recalled how the initiative was supported by his predecessors Pope St. Pius X and Pope Benedict XV. It was then “developed and perfected” in the 1930s by the Frenchman Abbé Paul Couturier, who promoted prayer “for the unity of the Church as Christ wishes and according to the means he wills.”
The mandate for the week of prayer, the Pope underscored, comes from the wish of Christ himself at the Last Supper “that they may all be one.” He observed that this mission was given a particular impetus by the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) but added that “the unity we strive for cannot result merely from our own efforts.” Rather, “it is a gift we receive and must constantly invoke from on high.”
The theme for 2012 Week of Prayer – “All shall be changed by the victory of Jesus Christ our Lord” – was crafted by the Polish Ecumenical Council. Pope Benedict said it reflects “their own experience as a nation,” which stayed faithful to Christ “in the midst of trials and upheavals,” including years of occupation by the Nazis and later the Communists.
The Pope tied the victory the Polish people experienced over their oppressors to overcoming the disunity that marks Christians.
He said that the “unity for which we pray requires inner conversion, both shared and individual,” and it cannot be “limited to cordiality and cooperation.” Instead, Christians must accept “all the elements of unity which God has conserved for us.”
Ecumenism, the Pope stated, is not an optional extra for Catholics but is “the responsibility of the entire Church and of all the baptized.” Christians, he said, must make praying for unity an “integral part” of their prayer life, “especially when people from different traditions come together to work for victory in Christ over sin, evil, injustice and the violation of human dignity.”
Pope Benedict then touched on the lack of unity in the Christian community, which he said “hinders the effective announcement of the Gospel and endangers our credibility.” Evangelizing formerly Christian countries and spreading the Gospel to new places will be “more fruitful if all Christians together announce the truth of the Gospel and Jesus Christ, and give a joint response to the spiritual thirst of our times,” he explained.
The Pope concluded his comments with the hope that this year’s Week of Prayer for Christian Unity will lead to “increased shared witness, solidarity and collaboration among Christians, in expectation of that glorious day when together we will all be able to celebrate the Sacraments and profess the faith transmitted by the Apostles.”
The general audience finished with Pope Benedict addressing pilgrims in various languages, including greeting a group of men and women from the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps, before leading the crowd in the Our Father and imparting his apostolic blessing.
We don't follow a *Christianity*.
We follow Christ. What we believe about Him is found in Scripture. What this nonsense is about us not admitting to anything or out and out hiding something is is beyond me.
What Catholics need to do is unwrap their minds from denominationalism and wrap it around Jesus and freedom in Christ.
We do not believe that it is a church which saves; it's a Person who saves. My identity is not in the church I attend, it's in Christ. I am a follower, a disciple, of Jesus, not Peter, not Luther, not Calvin, not any other human on this planet. Matter of fact, Paul lays that following man stuff to rest, even as far as defusing the claim of Peter being the first pope that the Catholics make.
1 Corinthians 1:1:10-17 10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
What *church* the building we go to, we attend is irrelevant in regard to our salvation. It's merely a place to worship once a week and is not the mainstay of our spiritual lives. It can be edifying and encouraging. We can have great friends there, but our lives should not revolve around church and a denomination but around Jesus.
Hebrews 12 (ESV) 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12 (NIV) 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12 (KJV) 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
I couldn't decide which version I liked the best so here they all are.
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
It is not a fascination, rather proof that those here who claim to have come to their beliefs all on their own without any guidance other than the Holy Spirit are not fooling anyone.
WOW! You’re not gonna believe this, but I was just thinking of that verse. “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.” Well, I believe you ARE going to believe this..:) GMTA
Oh please, one may eschew organized or denominational “religion” but no one has beliefs that are unique to them.
We have ALL learned what we believe from someone else.
***We don’t follow a *Christianity*.****
Oh please, again.
Everything posted here can be directly traced to a denomination whether one wants to admit it or not.
There is certain appeal to some to be rebels and loners.
In my mind, much of it is arrogance and pride.
No it doesn’t. The Holy Spirit may speak or use many different avenues. I may hear something from someone or read something that rings true. I then go to scripture to “see if these things are true” and then if it agrees with scripture and is supported by scripture it will be something I believe. Sola Scriptura only means that all beliefs are checked with scripture. It doesn’t mean that we listen to no one or can’t be shown the truth contained in scripture by anyone. It simply means that scripture is the ultimate authority. Something like the bodily assumption of Mary is not supported by scripture in any way. Something like the Trinity on the other hand is supported by scripture.
" >>Like the Trinity and the Incarnation."
Yes, those are 2. They are given in the Bible, but the Church fixed them as unfathomable mysteries and added the hypostatic union nonsense and conjured up the falsehood of original sin to confound understanding of both the Incarnation and the resultant Trinity.
***The Holy Spirit may speak or use many different avenues***
Yes, He does, but those avenues should all lead to ONE truth.
So, one hears something, it tickles the ears, so one locates the verses used to support what has been heard and voila, one says baptism is necessary, others say baptism is not, some say water baptism remits sin, others say it does not, one says believers must meet on Sunday, others say, no, no only on Saturday and on and on and on........
Until millions feel comfortable saying, well, Jesus never condemned abortion outright. And, Jesus never condemned homosexuality outright.
Oh, and by the way, Jesus is not the second person of the Trinity, there is no trinity. Or Jesus did not really die, He only appeared to die. Or Jesus did not really rise again, it was only a spiritual body.
So, if one rejects all these other beliefs that those who believe them have found support for in Scripture, who is to say “What is Truth?”
You? Who are you to say such?
Of course I'm going to believe it.
1 Corinthians 2:16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
It's the same Holy Spirit.
mauve=snow
1 Corinthians 1:1:10-17 10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Did you even read the first line in that passage?
You realize that Paul went to Peter and the others to confirm that what he was preaching was the truth, don’t you?
****We do not believe that it is a church which saves; it’s a Person who saves.****
So does the Catholic church.
****I am a follower, a disciple, of Jesus, not Peter, not Luther, not Calvin, not any other human on this planet. ****
Yeah, sure. Not a single other person has influenced you.
***It can be edifying***
What do you think “edifying” means?
***I couldn’t decide which version I liked the best so here they all are.***
Yes, I like those too but we greatly differ as to how Jesus does that.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
That's what happens when one uses one standard for the basis of the beliefs and the same Teacher.
I don't know a thing about what churches these FReepers attend: cynicalbear, smvoice, caww, boatbums, presentlynoscreenname, but we have unity in belief because we use Scripture as the standard by which to measure. Like CB says, we check what we hear with Scripture to see if it's so.
Everything posted here can be directly traced to a denomination whether one wants to admit it or not.
And just what does every denomination appeal to as the basis of its belief and to give it authority?
The same Bible, which for centuries was the KJV. When all those denominations were being formed, that was basically the only Bible available.
Hebrews 11:32-37 32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
There is certain appeal to some to be rebels and loners.
Wide is the road and broad is the path that leads to destruction and many are there who find it.
Romans 12 1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Friendship with the world is emnity against God.
Jesus was a rebel and loner as well as He bucked the religious system of the day. A rebel and a loner? Count me in. (Or count me out) I'll wear it as a badge of honor.
Anyone who becomes a Christian has to have the strength of character to be a rebel and a loner when you consider the pressure put on you by the enemy to conform and take the easy way out.
The level of criticism someone gets for converting to Christ is mind boggling and the pressure to go back into the old system of beliefs, as in that exerted on former Catholics to *cross the Tiber* is not for the weak willed or compliant.
Persecution and martyrdom is not for crowd followers.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2664237/posts?q=1&;page=1comment #11 which ignores what Christ Himself said and substitutes Your Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture, an interpretation that intrinsically contains a refutation of a direct quotation of Christ.
You cannot deny words directly from the mouth of Christ Himself as reported in the Bible without believing one of the following things is true:
a) the Bible contains errors, in which case Christ lied because the Holy Spirit did not indwell those led to write the Scripture wherein Christ is quoted,
b) the Holy Spirit could not protect the Truth and His Word from the wiles of Satan and the weakness of men thereby allowing errors to be included in the Bible, in which Christ lied because the Gates of Hell did indeed prevail against His Church by prevailing against His Word even as portions of it were being written down,
c) or that Jesus Christ just told an outright lie.
The only alternative to the conclusion that the cited comment denies the deity of Christ outright is that the comment is based on a belief that Jesus Christ, incarnate in the flesh, God from God, was too stupid to say that He meant. That view, in turn, is just a more subtle denial of the deity of Christ since if Christ incarnate was stupid He could not possibly be The Word incarnate given that The Word is all Truth and all Wisdom, not only a portion thereof. So, even the claim that Christ was stupid rather than a liar is just a more subtle way of denying the deity of Christ and replacing it with the worship of The Most High and Holy Self.
A denial of the deity of Christ is part and parcel of the fantasy of "Scripture Alone" since it is a fantasy that always eventually leads to accepting a heresy within which is a denial of the deity of Christ, whether those who profess "Scripture Alone" realize they're accepting that denial or not. Some such folks have the sort of ego that helps them enjoy rewriting Scripture, even words from the very mouth of Christ Himself, in order feed to ego of the Most High and Holy Self they worship. Others simply do not realize what they're accepting and have been blinded sufficiently to not recognize the heresy intrinsic to what they accept.
In either case:
Titus 3:9 but avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law. For they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:
Titus 3:11 Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.
Those who continue to deny the deity of Christ can fool themselves however they like, but they should get used to the idea of hearing, "I never knew you" from the very Jesus Christ they deny is God. Unless and until such an individual surrenders to Christ showing them the Truth in the Scriptures is just throwing pearls before swine.
You do understand the difference between someone having an influence on you and being their disciple, don't you?
Or do you?
It appears not, based on your statement.
As a matter of fact I was asked to join the conversation, but you're correct it was not by you. Be my guest..you can always scroll by any post you don't care to respond to.
“What is Truth?”
Jesus answers that here:
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and 'the truth' and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
And here:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word 'is truth'.
......"the opinion of a protestant regarding the Church and truth is not one I care about.
Then why do you engage them on these threads?
****And just what does every denomination appeal to as the basis of its belief and to give it authority?****
Someone’s interpretation of Scripture, usually the one whose interpretation sounds best or makes the most sense to them, or promises them great prosperity or whatever tickles their ears.
Otherwise, they move on to someone else, and then someone else and so on and so on and so on....
There are those of course, who blend things together to form their own “church”.
****And just what does every denomination appeal to as the basis of its belief and to give it authority?****
The same Bible, which for centuries was the KJV. When all those denominations were being formed, that was basically the only Bible available.***
So what? They all used the same Bible to come up with completely different and contradictory doctrine.
Of course, you overlook the fact that the Church was in possession of the Bible for over a thousand years before.
And people didn’t have a Bible for reasons other than what I know is the typical knee jerk response to such a statement of fact.
****Jesus was a rebel and loner****
Please. Jesus followed all the religious traditions of His culture and gathered all manner of people about Him. He did not ‘buck’ the religious systems of His time and He was not a loner.
He instituted a new covenant by fulfilling the promises of the old covenant.
Is that how those here see themselves?
***Then why do you engage them on these threads?***
Because nearly every day I see things that are outright lies regarding the Church and I cannot sit back and say nothing in her defense.
Maybe you need to look up the meaning of the word disciple.
dis·ci·ple (d-spl)
n.
1.
a. One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
b. An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.
Everyone who claims to be Christian is claiming to be a follower of Christ.
When I speak of influence, I am saying that each of us have heard the gospel from someone else and each of us has heard interpretations that we accept or reject.
It is a fallacy for anyone to claim otherwise.
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