Posted on 01/18/2012 3:19:15 PM PST by NYer
.- Pope Benedict XVI said today that achieving Christian unity requires more than “cordiality and cooperation” and that it must be accompanied by interior conversion.
“Faith in Christ and interior conversion, both individual and communal, must constantly accompany our prayer for Christian unity,” said the Pope to over 8,000 pilgrims gathered in the Vatican’s Paul VI Audience Hall on Jan. 18.
The Pope’s comments mark the start of the 2012 Week of Prayer for Christian Unity that runs until Jan. 25. It will be observed by over 300 Christian churches and ecclesial communities around the globe.
The Pope asked for “the Lord in a particular way to strengthen the faith of all Christians, to change our hearts and to enable us to bear united witness to the Gospel.”
In this way, he said, they “will contribute to the new evangelization and respond ever more fully to the spiritual hunger of the men and women of our time.”
The Pope explained that the concept of a week of prayer for Christian unity was initiated in 1908 by Paul Wattson, an Episcopalian minister from Maryland. One year later, he became a Catholic and was subsequently ordained to the priesthood.
Pope Benedict recalled how the initiative was supported by his predecessors Pope St. Pius X and Pope Benedict XV. It was then “developed and perfected” in the 1930s by the Frenchman Abbé Paul Couturier, who promoted prayer “for the unity of the Church as Christ wishes and according to the means he wills.”
The mandate for the week of prayer, the Pope underscored, comes from the wish of Christ himself at the Last Supper “that they may all be one.” He observed that this mission was given a particular impetus by the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) but added that “the unity we strive for cannot result merely from our own efforts.” Rather, “it is a gift we receive and must constantly invoke from on high.”
The theme for 2012 Week of Prayer – “All shall be changed by the victory of Jesus Christ our Lord” – was crafted by the Polish Ecumenical Council. Pope Benedict said it reflects “their own experience as a nation,” which stayed faithful to Christ “in the midst of trials and upheavals,” including years of occupation by the Nazis and later the Communists.
The Pope tied the victory the Polish people experienced over their oppressors to overcoming the disunity that marks Christians.
He said that the “unity for which we pray requires inner conversion, both shared and individual,” and it cannot be “limited to cordiality and cooperation.” Instead, Christians must accept “all the elements of unity which God has conserved for us.”
Ecumenism, the Pope stated, is not an optional extra for Catholics but is “the responsibility of the entire Church and of all the baptized.” Christians, he said, must make praying for unity an “integral part” of their prayer life, “especially when people from different traditions come together to work for victory in Christ over sin, evil, injustice and the violation of human dignity.”
Pope Benedict then touched on the lack of unity in the Christian community, which he said “hinders the effective announcement of the Gospel and endangers our credibility.” Evangelizing formerly Christian countries and spreading the Gospel to new places will be “more fruitful if all Christians together announce the truth of the Gospel and Jesus Christ, and give a joint response to the spiritual thirst of our times,” he explained.
The Pope concluded his comments with the hope that this year’s Week of Prayer for Christian Unity will lead to “increased shared witness, solidarity and collaboration among Christians, in expectation of that glorious day when together we will all be able to celebrate the Sacraments and profess the faith transmitted by the Apostles.”
The general audience finished with Pope Benedict addressing pilgrims in various languages, including greeting a group of men and women from the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps, before leading the crowd in the Our Father and imparting his apostolic blessing.
Well, hello, even Catholicism teaches that. No?
And, if they are not behaving or doing the “right” things, then their faith is suspect?
Their profession is suspect if they show no signs of spiritual growth. Lip service and all.
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
And, if their faith is suspect, then is their salvation still assured?
Yeah, it can be, if they're really saved. Because even though I look at a person and see sin or lack of growth, if they're saved, they're saved. That is why we're not supposed to judge but rather to encourage and teach and rebuke and exhort.
Everyone is at different stages in their spiritual walk and dealing with different issues that God is addressing in their lives. Just because they aren't progressing in areas in which I think they ought to doesn't mean they aren't progressing. The important part isn't what they do or don't do at any one given moment, but rather that on the whole, they are becoming more and more Christlike.
1 Thessalonians 5:14 And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all.
All anyone needs is faith the size or a mustard seed because it's not how great our faith is but how great the God we put that faith in is.
Where does Jesus tell us to read Scripture? Where do the Apostles tell us to read Scripture? And, do not give me the verse in Timothy as it does not one has to read Scripture.
Jesus read Scripture and endorses it. He teaches that error comes in from not knowing Scripture.
Matthew 22:29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
John 5:38-40 38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
Acts 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Mark 4:20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”
If someone does not have a desire to read God's word and find out for himself what God has to say to him about Himself, then yes, I'd question that person's salvation.
How can someone have a relationship with someone else when they won't get to know him?
Is reading Scripture a sign of one’s faith?
It can be and a person's attitude towards Scripture is a pretty good barometer of where that person is spiritually.
So, one’s nature is changed, but the old one is still there?
Yes, there are two natures living within us.
Romans 7 addresses the old versus new nature conflict.
What happens if one gives in to the old nature?
One sins.
Why, because I’m not just swallowing whole all that you profess to be the truth? It’s more like trying to feed garbage to someone who has just left a feast.
Scripture is garbage? Expecting people to live out what they profess is garbage?
Who knew?
Where ever there were Jews, there were copies of the Torah and the Prophets. It matters not whether or not the Greeks were interested in them, Jesus both spoke from them and proved repeatedly that they spoke of him. There is a very good reason why they were included with the New Testament books when it was all put together as one Bible - which simply means "the books" in Koine Greek. It's also no accident that Jesus as well as the writers of the epistles quoted from practically all of those books in order to teach the truths revealed by Jesus.
And many of the 'letters' were written by unknown people well after their deaths. Or we simply don't know anything about them. Who was 'Jude'? When were 1 Peter and 2 Peter written and who by? Who wrote Hebrews? Not that it matters overly much; the Church has decreed that they are Scripture and Scripture they are.
All the books that make up the New Testament came from known writers and were authenticated by the Apostles. They were not merely someones efforts on a lark to write Scripture. As Daniel1212 has said many times, the people knew what they were reading came from God's inspiration because it spoke to their hearts "Scripture, which became established essentially due to its Divine qualities and effects and other aspects of supernatural attestation, and progressive conflation with itself, is abundantly evidenced to have become the standard for obedience and for testing truth claims." I'm disheartened to see you have not moved any closer to trusting in the reliability and infallibility of the Holy Scriptures without needing to have your Church tell you it's okay to trust it.
Even in the time before Christ, the books written by the Prophets were accepted by the Jewish people as from God. From the site http://bible.org/article/how-many-books-are-bible, we read:
Some of the Old Testament books were immediately recognized as authoritative. Moses, after he wrote a book, put it in the Ark of the Covenant (Deut. 31:24-26). After the temple was built, the sacred writings were kept there (2 Kings 22:18). Early on, God commanded the kings to write for themselves a copy of the law. “And he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God” (Deut. 17:19). As the prophets spoke God’s word, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” they also recognized that their message had to be recorded for future generations.
The Jews realized that special revelation ceased with the prophet Malachi (c. 400 B.C.). In the Talmud (a handbook of Jewish traditions) we read, “Up to this point [the time of Alexander the Great] the prophets prophesied through the Holy Spirit; from this time onward incline thine ear and listen to the sayings of the wise.”
But what determined whether a book was considered part of the canon? Obviously, there were other books in existence that did not merit classification with the sacred writings. Examples are “The Book of the Wars of the Lord” (Num. 21:14) and “The Book of Jashar” (Josh. 10:13).
The criterion was, first, that the book had to agree with the Torah, the first five books of Moses. But this was not the only test. Some books that agreed with the Torah were also excluded. For example, Elijah wrote a book that likely met this standard; yet it was not a part of the canon. And, of course, we must ask how the Torah itself became accepted.
Second, and most important, these books were accepted because they were believed to be inspired by God. In other words, they were selected because they were recognized as having divine authority. This is not to say that the Jews gave these books their authority; these books were believed to have inherent authority. If a book is inspired by God, it would have authority whether men recognized it or not. A jeweler may recognize an authentic diamond, but his recognition does not make it so.
We must guard against the notion that the church has a right to make a book canonical. But at best the nation Israel or church body can only recognize a book as authoritative because it is inspired of God.
That site also goes into the topic of "The Discovery of Canonicity" that is very interesting. I hope, if you really want to educate yourself on this that you will take the time to read it.
I Timothy 3:15. The Church is NOT the "basis and pillar of the truth" but "a pillar and buttress of the truth". Find me a translation or a Greek version which says that. I'll bet you can't.
English Standard Version - "if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth."
New American Standard Bible - the pillar and support of the truth.
Wycliffe Bible - a pillar and firmness of truth
Common English Bible - the backbone and support of the truth.
English Standard Version Anglicised - a pillar and buttress of the truth.
Lexham English Bible - the pillar and mainstay of the truth.
The Greek word for "ground" here is hedraiÅma and means "a stay, prop, support". Is that what you wanted?
Jesus gave us the Church which He taught for three years. NT Scripture is a gift from the Church, aided by the Holy Spirit. You're welcome.
Finally, Jesus gave us himself so that we may be redeemed from the wages of our sin, which is death. When we place our faith in him and receive his gift of eternal life, we become part of his body, the "church", a "called-out assembly". God gave us Holy Scripture so that we can have a reliable, trustworthy, infallible authority for the truths he has revealed to us. It is a gift from God TO his church. Try to keep that straight, okay?
I think I finally have the answer to the question: who taught you this?
Richard Jordan: Knowing The Enemy (1 of 1) Forgotten Truths TV: The Snare Of The DevilWikipedia: Hyperdispensationalism and the Grace Movement"Does the Bible seem confusing at times? Do you feel your missing something in God's Word? Watch this video and you will find the key to understanding God's will for your life.
"This study is the key to 'unlocking' your Bible from a Past, Present, and Future perspective, in order to understand God's will for you today."
Pauline Truths Lost (Order of Loss)
First: The Distinctive Message & Ministry of the Apostle Paul - II Timothy 1:15
Second: The Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ
Third: The Difference between Israel and the Church, the Body of Christ
Fourth: Justification by Faith Alone, in Christ Alone - Acts 13:39
Pauline Truths Recovered (Order of Recovery)
First: Justification by Faith Alone, in Christ Alone Recovered via Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century via Luther, et al
Second: The Difference between Israel and the Church, the Body of Christ
Recovered in the 1800's via John Nelson Darby, Ethelbert William Bullinger, Sir Robert Anderson, et al
Third: The Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ
Recovered in the 19th Century via John Nelson Darby and included by C.I. Scofield in his Reference Bible, published 1909
Fourth: The Distinctive Message & Ministry of the Apostle Paul Recovered from the middle 1900’s via John C. O'Hair, Charles F. Baker, Cornelius R. Stam, et al
It most certainly IS what John said.
John 20:30-31
Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
And you should be able to view the texts by mouse hover http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Bible/2Tim_3.html#Partial
I doubt you even read them. Am I correct? I'm glad I posted them anyway because I know there are others who read these threads who may have their eyes opened by these articles. It's quite telling how reactive some can be who have already made up their minds about a subject that hearing anything contrary may cut a little too close to the quick. It isn't a laughing matter.
Thanks! Pretty neat tool. I’ve got it in my Favorites list.
Just saw by the grace of God that it is interesting that Paul mentions Jannes and Jambres withstanding Moses in the same chapter as 2Tim. 3:15-17. These resisted Moses, who authority was not established by the seminary he went to (not faulting such) or political connections, but by his holy character and God’s miraculous attestation, and which in turn affirmed Abraham, which was likewise affirmed.
Moses wrote that down (no, i do not buy the The Documentary Source Hypothesis, http://www.ukapologetics.net/docu.htm) and gave the law and new revelation, establishing a covenant fearfully confirmed, which became the standard for obedience and testing truth claims and thus additional rev. (Is. 8:20, etc.)
In this context of Jannes and Jambres Paul reminds Timothy of who discipled him, which was a man of Scriptural sacrificial holy testimony, and whose manner was to reason out of the Scriptures, (Acts 17:2) such as in Acts 28:23, “persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening,” (Acts 28:23) as well as by the Scriptural attestation of miracles, esp to those who knew not Scripture, (Rm. 15:19) as an able minister of the New Covenant.
Paul then uniquely affirms all Scripture as wholly inspired of God, and instrument of the perfection of the saints (the word for “profitable” is also used for “Godliness” as regards eternal life: 1Tim. 4:8)
Good night, er morning.
Faced with the prospect of having a Scripturally illiterate young generation (and having a printing press), the Mass. legislature passed their version of “No child left behind,” “The Old Deluder Act” (1647)
It being one chief project of that old deluder, satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the Scriptures, as in former times by keeping them in an unknown tongue [alluding to Rome], so in these latter times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so that at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded and corrupted with false glosses of saint-seeming deceivers; and to the end that learning may not be buried in the grave of our forefathers, in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors.
It is therefore ordered that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to fifty households shall forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children, or by the inhabitants in general, by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint; provided those that send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns.
And it is further ordered, that when any town shall increase to the number of one hundred families or householders, they shall set up a grammar school, the master thereof being able to instruct youth so far as they may be fitted for the university, provided that if any town neglect the performance hereof above one year that every such town shall pay 5 pounds to the next school till they shall perform this order. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Mass.Gen.Laws.html#The
Also,
Records of the Columbia Historical Society, Washington, Volumes 1-2, reports that in the first report of a public school in Washington which they had on file, in 1813 a Mr. Henry Ould states,
55 have learned to read in the Old and New Testaments, and are all able to spell words of three, four, and five syllables; 26 are now learning to read Dr. Watts’ Hymns and spell words of two syllables; 10 are learning words of four and five letters. Of 509 out of the whole number admitted that did not know a single letter, 20 can now read the Bible and spell words of three, four, and five syllables, 29 read Dr. Watts’ Hymns and spell words of two syllables, and 10 words of four and five letters.”[19]
The Puritan Christian New England Primer was used in New England, which is estimated to have sold upwards to 3,000,000 copies from 1700 to 1850. Introduced in 1690, this reader was used in what now would be the 1st grade, and taught multitudes of children how to read for 200 years, until circa 1900. The alphabet was taught with Bible verses that began with each letter of the alphabet. Lessons had questions about the Bible and the Ten Commandments. An example of the Primer is, A = In Adam’s fall, we sinned all. B = Heaven to find, the Bible mind.”[20]
In addition, approximately half of all American children learned from the McGuffey Reader, a series of textbooks of which 122 million copies were published (during a time when the population was much less than today, and books were passed on more). More: http://www.astorehouseofknowledge.info/Education_in_the_United_States
And,
The Indian Bible was the first book printed in an American Indian language, and was also the second book of any kind printed in Massachusetts (The Bay Psalm Book of 1640 being held as being the first, which Eliot is also credited as being an editor of). The Eliot Bible appeared some 120 years before the first complete English edition of the Bible was published in what is now the United States (due to the economics of printing versus importing)
You should read this some time: http://www.conservapedia.com/North_American_Indians
Amen sister , that is my prayer too (for him to give a heart that is true to HIM)
If the Roman Catholic church was infallible they would know that the God of Abraham , Issac and Jacob was not the same as allah . I they were infallible they would not believe that lie , the lie that is setting them up for their fall.
Now you know that a concept like that is going to throw the Catholic mind into a tizzy.
It’s interesting to watch the trend of Catholics constantly giving the credit for scripture to the RCC and non Catholics giving credit to God for inspiring and preserving the scriptures. Rather telling if you ask me.
It keeps getting back to the very first words of Satan recorded in the Bible......Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say,...
It worked then and he's still getting mileage out of it today.
Indeed......
Really, who needs God when the Catholic church is there to take credit for everything and provide it for us?
/roll eyes
You are attributing to me something that you have decided about me. Solving "mysteries" is not your strongpoint. Neither is pigeon holing people. You keep looking for "the place" where people who are not Catholic get their views. It's called THE BIBLE. And it solves LOTS of mysteries. Like the "Mystery Hid in Scripture" of Rom. 16:25,26, or the "Mystery Hid in God" of Eph. 3:2,3. Those are found in the Bible. And are TRUE mysteries that could benefit your "hard work" for the Lord.
I notice that you have spurned the various KJV Bibles in your efforts. http://bible.cc/1_timothy/3-15.htm gives us this:
New International Version (©1984)
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
New Living Translation (©2007)
so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
English Standard Version (©2001)
if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
International Standard Version (©2008)
in case I am delayed, so that you may know how to behave in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But if I delay, that you may know how it is necessary to behave in the household of God, which is the church of THE LIVING GOD, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
in case I’m delayed. I want you to know how people who are members of God’s family must live. God’s family is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
American King James Version
But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
American Standard Version
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Darby Bible Translation
but if I delay, in order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God’s house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth.
English Revised Version
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Webster’s Bible Translation
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Weymouth New Testament
But, for fear I may be hindered, I now write, so that you may have rules to guide you in dealing with God’s household. For this is what the Church of the ever-living God is, and it is the pillar and foundation-stone of the truth.
World English Bible
but if I wait long, that you may know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Young’s Literal Translation
and if I delay, that thou mayest know how it behoveth thee to conduct thyself in the house of God, which is an assembly of the living God — a pillar and foundation of the truth,
Foundation or ground is the norm. The pillar supports off where? The base or foundation or ground. Nice try, though.
New twists on old errors.
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