Romans 8:26-27 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
What you are denying implicitly is that Mary and the other saints are members of the Church.
Not in the least. Show me where I said that if you think it.
That they are can be our spokesman, because they are oblivious to us or unable to hear us.
Yeah, that I'm denying. There is no Scriptural support for that at all. There is no indication that they can hear us, that they have the ability to answer those prayers.
They are redeemed men and women and not omniscient nor omnipotent.
And besides, nobody knows for sure if any of the men or women the RCC has canonized as saints are actually, really in heaven. It's only assumed they are because the church says so, but I don't see that there's any way of verifying it.
Yes, do you think we believe otherwise? And besides, nobody knows for sure if any of the men or women the RCC has canonized as saints are actually, really in heaven. It's only assumed they are because the church says so, but I don't see that there's any way of verifying it.
That follows from your rejection of the authority of the Church. But if you are wrong on the one, you are wrong on the other. Indeed, the same argument can be made about the canon of Scriptures. Apart from what the Church says, we have no way of verifying what is Holy Scripture and what is not. You use “us” and “we"in a way that implies Paul is addressing us as individuals. but he is specifically addressing the Church of Rome and by extension Church in general. It is, of course, the Spirit who addresses you and me, and unlike you I do not exclude the role of the Church in providing these words to us.