Posted on 01/15/2012 2:36:04 PM PST by narses
and under the Ottomans!
Toothfairy. How perfect a name in light of this comment:
“People need to quit confusing “Catholic”, which means universal, with “Roman Catholic”.”
No, people need to stop using the term “Roman Catholic”. I’m Catholic. “Roman Catholic” was originally a Protestant term.
DesertRhino:
and you can tell us what Christ wanted and created. that is the problem with American Fundies, No understanding of the Incarnation. As Pope Benedict stated in Spirit of the Liturgy, Incarnational Theology means we don’t do as we please. On the contrary, it binds us to the history of a particular time. Outwardly, that history may seem fortuitous, but is the form of history willed by God.
The history that God willed is for Christ to become incarnate in the context of Roman-Greek culture, not American yahoo Protestant culture. The history of Christianity and Doctrine is expressed in the Church Fathers, both Latin-West and Greek-East, and that is Catholic and can also be claimed by the Eastern Orthodox Church.
tsk, tsk
The problem with Eastern Orthodoxy is its decentralized nature has led to frequent schisms that have more to do with nationalism than Christ.
Take Ukraine. There are 3 churches that each claim to be the authentic Orthodox Church in the Ukraine. In Greece, you have the myriad of schisms between the New Calendar state Church and the dozens of Old (Julian) Calendar factions.
That’s why I’m an Eastern Catholic and not an Eastern Orthodox.
The main differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello skit “Who’s on first.”
I’m not sure of your exact argument, but it seems to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, you are trying to equate early worship of statues and trinkets dedicated to Diana on the same scale as Christians decorating their churches with icons and statues of Christ or Saints.
There is a large gulf of difference here. we as humans use our gifts as artists and sculptures in a reverent and humble way to show respect as best we can. We have built magnificent churches in honor of God. The one true god we believe in. Again this is not an exercise in idolatry but an expression of love and respect rendered and expressed by human hands.
“I was stating it was Catholic and looked nothing like the yahoo American Protestant rural culture.”
Oh, but you don’t understand,,you see, American protestant architecture and other things that you call “yahoo” are extensials and can change over time, and only reflect that times have evolved, thus mechanisms to deal wth modern culture have changed.
LOL
funny, when i went to Mass today to receive the Eucharist as Christians have done for 2,000 years, i didn’t see any castles, swiss guards, lawyers, diplomats, etc.
the Church is Universal, it was here in 95ad, 295ad, 646ad, 908ad and 2012ad.
desertrhino, do you agree with Joseph Smith that the Church went apostate in the late 1st century?
“A rather odd pronouncement considering that ALL protestant branches of Christianity believe in less rather than more Catholic Christian teaching, incuding the incarnation, the virgin birth, the immaculate conception, the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, the primacy and infallibility of the pope, the assumption, the sacraments and means of redemption (good works), celibate priesthood, and the list could go on and on. Those churches that disagree with the Roman church, then, can’t rightly be called catholic because their divergence makes them less than universal.”
Mach9, I understand your point. It is a different point than my own.
All Christians believe in one universal church, if they believe the words of Scripture - the body and bride of Christ - made up of all who have trusted in Christ’s sacrifice, resurrection and ascension on their behalf. Universal is the meaning of catholic, and they would agree with that revelation.
Many Christians would disagree on quite a few of the items you listed that are taught by the Roman church. Many of those things were not taught during the first 100 years of the Church. That is a different proposition than whether they believe there is one universal church, founded by Christ.
“you can only be considered Catholic if you hold the Catholic FAITH.”
Again, the initial premise was about the term Catholic, not the Roman Catholic church. There is a different meaning and history.
Faith
“and under the Ottomans!”
Yes I forgot, they have had a hard history throughout time.
The term Roman Catholic was invented by Anglican controversialists as an insult to those Catholics who remained loyal to Rome.
“roman” Catholic is a term never used before the Great Schism in 1054ad.
what you call “roman” Catholic is the same Catholic Church that has been here for 2,000 years.
if you don’t believe this, please tell me who founded the “roman” Catholic Church?
“No, people need to stop using the term “Roman Catholic”. I’m Catholic. “Roman Catholic” was originally a Protestant term.”
I think the meaning of the term Roman Catholic, goes back much further than the Protestants. It is a reflection of the divergent early church between the Latin church centered in Rome and the Eastern Orthodox (Greek)church centered in Constantinople. This divergence resulted in the Great Schism in 1054.
Follow your bureaucracy,, follow your pope, knock yourself out. We pray for our separated bretheren who have fallen into error. It’s not that we generally doubt your salvation (which we are warned by the bible not to do). It’s that we think you are incorrect about some things, and are wasting time kissing the ring of some guy on earth.
“Faith” is a beautiful word. But what kind of Faith? Faith in WHAT?
“The history that God willed is for Christ to become incarnate in the context of Roman-Greek culture”
I think I read somewhere that Christ was born as a Jew. I think they also had a culture...
Then you believe the Ark of the Covenant was idolatrous.
But why should I care what heretics think?
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