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To: boatbums; CynicalBear

So, let’s look at the passages you have posted.

***John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.***

When we read before and after this passage, we understand that Jesus is speaking of His Ascension, not His resurrection. We know this because after His resurrection, He was seen and heard and touched. We also know that the Holy Spirit did not come to them at Pentecost until after He had ascended. Therefore, this passage does not say in particular that His body was glorified, or a different one than the one that died and was buried.

***John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.***

Again, this passage refers to the ascension, because the Holy Spirit came to lead them after Jesus ascended into heaven, not after the resurrection.

***Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. ***

This passage does indeed refer to Jesus’ glorious body, and it also mentions that Jesus is able to subdue all things to Himself. But, let us consider at what point Jesus was able to do this. We know that Jesus, truly human was subject to the same temptations of the body that we ourselves are subject. But, we know that Jesus was able to subdue those temptations, and did so before His death and resurrection.

Here, Paul is saying that when we take on Christ, it is His abiding/working within us that subdues OUR bodies, changing that body so that its vile(sinful)nature is not what we succumb to, but is overcome(changed) and subdued by His love within us.

***Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.***

I am not sure why this was included regarding this conversation. This passage is in regards to the eternal priesthood of Jesus and not in regards to His body. Maybe you could explain to me why you included it.

***John 20:26-28 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”***

Now, this passage clearly shows that the body of the risen Christ is the same body which died and was buried. I am guessing that you included it because Jesus came and stood among them in a locked room.

Consider though, these instances whereby Jesus did similar feats while in His human body.

Jesus went out into the desert for forty days and forty nights and survived without food and water. Can any other human do this? Matthew 4:2

Jesus walked on water. Remember, Jesus sends them out on the water without Him and then, suddenly, He is there, walking on the water. The Apostles think they are seeing a ghost, but He assures them they are not. Do you see the parallel here to when He comes to them in the Upper Room? Matthew 14:22-33, Mark 6:45-52, John 6:16-21

In Luke 4, we read that those in His hometown rejected Him. They forced Him out of town, to the edge of a cliff where they intended to hurl Him down over the cliff. At the end of that story, we read that Jesus “passed through their midst” and went on His way. How did that happen? Scripture doesn’t say. It doesn’t say that they changed their minds and let Him go or that anyone stopped them. It simply says, He passed through their midst and went on His way.

In three of the Gospels, we read how Jesus calmed the sea by merely speaking to the winds and the water.
Matthew 8:23-27, Luke 8:23-25, Mark 4:37-41

And lastly, He bore the terrible scourging of the Roman soldiers and then carried His cross.

These things Jesus did before He was glorified.

Again, Scripture never says anything about His body being different than the one that died and was buried. The passages you cite do not say that Jesus’ body is no longer human, or that it was glorified. In fact, Scripture makes pains to emphasize that the risen body of Jesus was the same body and still human, because Jesus’ resurrected body still bore His wounds and He ate with them.


801 posted on 01/13/2012 11:01:59 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette; boatbums; CynicalBear

>> “Scripture never says anything about His body being different than the one that died and was buried” <<

.
Wrong as wrong can be.

Scripture says that a biological, corruptible body cannot enter into the presence of God, and must be changed. It must “put on” incorruption.


805 posted on 01/13/2012 11:07:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Jvette

Many thanks for this fine post, done with clarity and with charity.


808 posted on 01/13/2012 11:12:59 AM PST by Running On Empty (The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: Jvette; boatbums; smvoice; caww; RnMomof7
>> In fact, Scripture makes pains to emphasize that the risen body of Jesus was the same body and still human<<

There is so much error in that post that I will only respond with on portion of scripture which your post calls a lie.

1 Corinthians15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

If you claim it was the same body after resurrection as it was before you must deny that Jesus was truly human.

834 posted on 01/13/2012 12:03:46 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Jvette
The passages you cite do not say that Jesus’ body is no longer human, or that it was glorified. In fact, Scripture makes pains to emphasize that the risen body of Jesus was the same body and still human, because Jesus’ resurrected body still bore His wounds and He ate with them.

Jesus looks like anything he wants to look like at any given time...He appears as a lamb, a lion, a frightening figure to the Apostle John, and in the OT Jesus showed up as an angel and took on the appearance of different men...

Mar 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

This ought to be clear to anyone that Jesus does not look like he did as his appearance in the flesh...

When we read before and after this passage, we understand that Jesus is speaking of His Ascension, not His resurrection. We know this because after His resurrection, He was seen and heard and touched.

Nope...Jesus was not touched before his ascension...

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

895 posted on 01/13/2012 1:29:06 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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