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To: CynicalBear; lastchance
lastchance, is the monstrance that contains the "consecrated host" that "becomes" the actual body of Christ not an "image of God"? The priest parades it through town, people worshipping it.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..." Exodus 19:4,5.

"If the image is meant to show the true God is not idolatry."

Since we have not physically seen the true God yet, then anything man makes to represent His likeness, or Mary's likeness, is idolatry. "Meant to" is not a loophole in God's Word.

752 posted on 01/13/2012 7:43:21 AM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing is for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice

Just another instance of “changing glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man”. Not a good practice per scripture.


755 posted on 01/13/2012 7:55:01 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: smvoice

“Since we have not physically seen the true God yet, ...”

Yes, we have seen Him - Jesus. Once he was incarnated we are allowed to represent his likeness because he showed us how he looks. The Shroud of Turin, and the mandylion are true representatives of Christ’s face and the early orthodox icons were modeled on the shroud.

The word icon in Greek for image is the word for an image such as seen in a mirror - the image is a version of reality.


756 posted on 01/13/2012 8:28:10 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: smvoice

Since it is the actual body and blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we are worshipping Him. When I pray before a crucifix I know that is not really an actual deity. The crucifix on its own is without power, without the ability to grant boons or dispense blessings. It is however a reminder to me of the great suffering Our Lord endured for our salvation. It is an image but an image of what an artist thought the true God Incarnate, Jesus Christ looked like.

To me this issue was settled by the Iconoclast controversy which answered the concerns with the 2nd Commandment. If one holds to that commandment without exception one would be as restrictive as Muslims are supposed to be when it comes to depictions of the natural world as well as the constructed world. But we know God can not contradict Himself and in the fashioning of the Ark of the Covenant He even commands the depiction of images. So obviouly images are permitted. God would never allow the adoring of graven images so one must conclude that not all images are graven images.

The Book of Samuel describes King David and the people of Israel dancing before the Ark,

“He and all his men went to Baalah[a] in Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the Name,[b] the name of the LORD Almighty, who is enthroned between the cherubim on the ark. 3 They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart 4 with the ark of God on it,[c] and Ahio was walking in front of it. 5 David and all Israel were celebrating with all their might before the LORD, with castanets,[d] harps, lyres, timbrels, sistrums and cymbals”

Now I ask you was David celebrating before a graven image because the Ark had carvings of cherubim on it? Or was it truly a sign that God Himself was amongst them.

“Then have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them. 9 Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.”

Meaning that when King David danced before the Ark He was giving homage and adoration to the one True God?

Catholics and Orthodox take the latter view and apply it to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist and keep the consecrated Eucharist in the Tabernacle.

Now if you do not believe Christ is truly present and that the host is only unleavened bread it would indeed be a grave sin to adore it and to give it a place of honor. No question about that.

But Catholics and Orthodox hold that the Lord is truly present in the Eucharist. So we adore no false god but the Alpha and Omega, Himself.

I want to thank you for your civil tone despite are very real differences. I pray that God will always bless you with a heart fully turned towards Him in all you do.


778 posted on 01/13/2012 9:41:36 AM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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