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To: boatbums

I don’t think you’ll encounter the term “sin nature” very often in Catholic thought.

I don’t see that the curse on childbirth is necessarily confined to women who sin. Further, it is not settled teaching that Mary’s delivery was without pain. I am reading the hymns of Ephrem of Syria (4th century Mesopotamia — awesomely great hymns), and he says it was a birth with pangs.

Further, in giving birth to Jesus, Mary, we hold, gives birth to the Church, and in being the mother of Christ she shares, off course in a lesser way, his sufferings as he sheds the blood which grows the Church. As the mother of Christ, she shares in his suffering. as the mother of the Church (for the Church is the body of him whom she bore), she shares in the sufferings of the Church and,indeed, of the whole creation which groaneth together in travail until now.


So this may be the kind of “discovery” which prompts our antagonists to high-five one another and congratulate themselves on their superior wit. But it really just passes me by without stirring a hair.

They insist on their quasi-literal understanding of the birth pangs, but raise no fuss about standing on the moon or the crown of twelve stars.

But more foolishly still, they seem to think that centuries of study and of reference to this very passage — even by those who hold the Immaculate Conception, would somehow overlook the birth pangs argument and they bring forth this battered tin can as though it were some precious hereto unseen and devastating argument. Then they all grin at each other as if they’d done something of unprecedented craftiness.

Yeah. Well. Whatever.

Merry Christmas.


291 posted on 12/29/2011 9:53:36 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg
But more foolishly still, they seem to think that centuries of study and of reference to this very passage — even by those who hold the Immaculate Conception, would somehow overlook the birth pangs argument and they bring forth this battered tin can as though it were some precious hereto unseen and devastating argument.

Well, then, it should be a simple matter to post the Roman Catholic doctrine dealing with this aspect of Romans 12, and it would be pertinent to the discussion.

Is there some reason it's not possible for you to do so?

302 posted on 12/29/2011 11:10:14 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Mad Dawg; boatbums
>>but raise no fuss about standing on the moon or the crown of twelve stars.<<

The twelve stars are the twelve tribes of Israel. Just one more proof that Israel is the woman and not Mary.

306 posted on 12/29/2011 11:46:41 AM PST by CynicalBear
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