Posted on 12/24/2011 8:59:19 AM PST by Saundra Duffy
During the time my family and I lived in Europe, we visited the Frederiksborg Castle in Denmark, where many of the Carl Bloch paintings of the Savior are displayed. The paintings are crowded into a small room, sometimes called the Kings Oratory. There is a glass partition on the floor in front of the altar.
As we viewed the paintings, our family members took turns explaining what was happening in each one. We progressed from the birth of the Lord through His temptation by the devil and His preaching and healing. When we got to the Crucifixion I said, And this is when He died.
The two youngest children insisted, No, Hes alive. I stooped down to ask them to use their quiet voices and to explain more about the Crucifixion. Thats when I saw what they were seeing. From their angle, we could see on the glass partition the reflection of one painting superimposed on another painting. One was the painting of the Lord on the cross, and the other was the painting of His Resurrection. In both paintings His arms are stretched out, in the one on the cross and in the other as He is leaving the tomb. When I first saw the paintings imposed one on the other, it startled me. In that moment the images seemed to match perfectly. It seemed as if I were looking at the Saviors spirit leaving His body on the cross.
Upon closer inspection I discovered the illusion, then enjoyed looking at each painting separatelyThe Crucifixion and The Resurrection. But the memory of the two paintings superimposed is imprinted on my mind. In a single view, they encapsulated the Lords condescension and His transcendent glory. And in one moment, the reality of the Crucifixion and of the Resurrection was confirmed by the Spirit in my heart and soul.
This experience has come to my mind over the years when I have studied and pondered three aspects of the Lords condescension: the reality of His condescension, the breadth and totality of His condescension, and the continuing blessing of His condescension for us today.
The Reality of the Condescension The condescension of the Lord Jesus Christ generally refers to His leaving His high and holy station in heaven and coming to live as a man on earth to accomplish the Atonement and Resurrection. Jesus came to live where mankind lives and as mankind lives so He could raise mankind to live where the Father lives and as the Father lives. Because He descended to earth to lift us to heaven, each one of us can have the perfect brightness of hope (2 Nephi 31:20) of progressing into the kingdom and presence of God.
President John Taylor (180887) said of the condescension of Christ, It was further necessary that He should descend below all things, in order that He might raise others above all things; for if He could not raise Himself and be exalted through those principles brought about by the atonement, He could not raise others; He could not do for others what He could not do for Himself.1
Nephis vision may be the best scriptural summary of the Lords condescension, to the degree a summary is possible (see 1 Nephi 11:1433). His description of the condescension includes the Redeemers coming to earth; His being baptized by John; the Holy Ghost descending upon Him; His going forth among the people with great power; their casting Him out from among them; His calling of twelve apostles; His providing for angels to come down from heaven to minister unto the children of men; His healing the sick and afflicted with all manner of diseases; His casting out of devils and unclean spirits; and His being judged by the people, lifted up upon a cross, and slain for the sins of the world.
The Lords coming to earth was essential to the Fathers plan. There had to be a Savior, a Redeemer, a Great Mediator. Jesus told the Father, Send me (Abraham 3:27) because He loved God our Eternal Father and because He loved us. He explained to the Nephites, I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me (3 Nephi 27:13).
The Breadth of the Condescension The wonder of the Lords condescension is most meaningful when we contemplate how far He descended. The irony of the Jews rejection of Him pierces more deeply when we contemplate who He had been for them before He came to earth.
For example, before the Lord Omnipotent came to earth, He was known as the Creator of all things from the beginning (Mosiah 3:8; Helaman 14:12). Contrast that with the Jews query, Is not this the carpenter? (Mark 6:3). The Creator of all things became a carpenter.
Similarly, consider the contrast between Shepherd and Lamb. In the Old Testament the Lord was called the Shepherd of Israel (Psalm 80:1). Isaiah described Him as the One who gathers His lambs with His arm (see Isaiah 40:11). In His earthly life, that lamb-gathering Shepherd became Gods Lamb, sacrificed for Israel and for the whole world (see John 1:36).
Consider this difference. Before Jesus came to earth He was called the Father of heaven and earth (Mosiah 3:8). On earth He was mistaken as the son of Joseph (John 6:42).
When the Israelites were finally ready to enter the promised land, it was Jehovah who stopped the River Jordan and made it stand in its place so His people could cross on dry ground (see Joshua 3). Contrast His power in performing that miracle with His humility when, as Jesus of Nazareth, He was immersed by John in the same River Jordan (see Matthew 3:1317).
In ancient Israel, Jehovah spared thousands and thousands of firstborn sons on the night of the Passover (see Exodus 12). When He came to earth in the flesh, Jesus rasied from the dead the only son of a widow (see Luke 7:1215).
The Lord saved thousands. The Lord saved one.
For those of us who live after the Saviors life and suffering on earth, the hymn Jesus, Once of Humble Birth (no. 196) reminds us that Jesus came to earth in humble circumstances but will return one day in power and glory:
Jesus, once of humble birth, Now in glory comes to earth. But the Lords faithful followers who lived before His life on earth could have sung of His condescension with the same hymn, only reversing the order of the concepts in each couplet:
Once in glory oer all the earth; Now He comes of humble birth. Once in heaven did He reign, Now He suffers grief and pain. Once, the Lord, the great I Am; Now a meek and lowly Lamb. Once His chariot was the cloud; Now upon the cross He bows. Once in glory He appeared; Now He groans in blood and tears. Once their King He was known; Now rejected by His own. Once exalted to a throne; Now forsaken, left alone. Once the great Anointed Heir; Now all things He meekly bears. 2 And each Christmas we sing in the last verse of Silent Night:
Jesus, Lord, at thy birth; Jesus, Lord, at thy birth. 3 But we would be correct, too, if we sang, Jesus, Lord before Thy birth. Long before.
Consider the Psalmists attempt to describe how far the Lord descended:
The Lord is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
Who is like unto the Lord our God, who dwelleth on high,
Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;
That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people (Psalm 113:48).
The Lord Omnipotent, who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, descends from His most lofty position to the very lowliestraising the poor out of the dust and the needy out of the dunghill.
He descended below all, that all might be raised with Him and the Father.
The Lord Still Condescends to Lift Us Another aspect of the Lords condescension that helps us exercise faith in Him is this: His mercy, grace, loving-kindness, and long-suffering bless us today, tomorrow, and forever. Because He experienced the condescension of mortality, He knows how to bless and succor us. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted (Hebrews 2:1718; see also Alma 7:1113).
Can we have faith enough in Him and in the inclusiveness of His love to believe He hears and answers and helps us, even us, in our lowly, dingy, feeble state? That He still reaches to those who are spiritually in-the-dust poor and spiritually dunghill-filthy?
The Lord continues to do for mankind the things He did during His earthly ministry that were part of His condescension. He, Himselfor by angels or authorized servants on earthpreaches the gospel, administers ordinances, performs miracles, and heals the afflictions of people today. He continues to be mindful of us. He is mindful of us as a people. But most miraculously He is still mindful of us individually. In some marvelous way, and though He is not physically present with each of us, He still feels the tug on the hem of His garment from a humble handmaiden in the midst of a multitude. He still hears the cry of the blind, perceives the longing of the sincere publican, calls common men to be His servants, tells the repentant sinner to go and sin no more. He still pleads our cause universally and individually before the Father. He still calls us by name and invites us to arise and come forth unto Him. He still condescends from His high and holy place to lift us.
The gift of His grace, His love, and His condescension blesses us all. Many of us have felt that divine strength and support in our lives. I have felt it many times, but perhaps none more so than in the following experience.
One day during my service as bishop, I felt burdened, even overwhelmed, by the troubles and trials of the ward members. It seemed that every single one was suffering. In every home there was some kind of pain, heartache, sorrow, or worry. I knelt to pray, but as the sum of all the troubles accumulated in my mind, I sank from an upright kneeling position to a position of being stooped over, all the way to the floor.
In my prayer I poured out my soul, saying things like this (names have been changed):Father, Mary is expecting a baby out of wedlock. She is no more than a girl herself. What will she do? How can she do it?
And her mother, I cried. Marys mother is heartbroken and devastated. How will she go on?
The name and face of another ward member came to mind. What about Roger? He has multiple sclerosis. The doctors say he is going to die. What will his wife and sons ever do?
And in the Smiths home. Their son is so crippled. They have taken care of him night and day for 35 years. How can they go on?
And there were others. In every case, the answer came clearly and powerfully that God was very aware of each individual. He knew the unwed teen. He knew her mother. He had a plan for the husband with multiple sclerosis and for his wife and sons. And for 35 years, night and day, the Lord had watched over the crippled son and his family.
As each person appeared in my mind, the undeniable witness came, in words too sacred to repeat, that the great plan of happiness and the Atonement were active and efficacious in each life. One by one the burdens of these brothers and sisters were lifted from my soul. The Holy Spirit imparted feelings of comfort and reassurance as if to say, Bishop, let the Lord take these burdens. Rise up. Do the best you can. Things will work out for these people. Youll be fine, too. Go be their bishop. The Lord will be their Savior.
I discovered that I had returned to an upright kneeling position. Little by little the load had been lifted. I knew with a sure conviction that the Savior knew each person. His suffering and death thousands of years ago had atoned for them. But just as certain and much more immediate was the sure knowledge that He bore their present burdens. His love was complete, His power comprehensive, and His intercession current.
Conclusion May we remember the Lordwho He is, what He has done, and what He has promised to do. Before and after He was a baby in Bethlehem and a carpenter in Nazareth, He was and is the God of Israel and the God of the whole earth. He was and is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He is the Holy and Only Begotten Son of the Living God. He was with the Father from the beginning. He is in the Father and the Father in Him; and in Him has the Father glorified His name (see 3 Nephi 9:15). May we remember and believe that He has all wisdom and all power in heaven and in earth (see Mosiah 4:9). And may we have faith that He yet condescends to help and lift the least and the last, even you, even me.
Mrs. Scoutmaster and I are having dinner tomorrow night with one of my Assistant Scoutmasters and his wife. I love the man and his wife. And kids. His daughter-in-law. His grandchild. His son and my son shared their Eagle Scout ceremonies. I love his family. Heck, he is family. He's been my assistant for nearly two decades. We've already exchanged our Christmas gifts with them.
He's a Mormon. He's never been called to be a leader for his LDS unit (he doesn't have a Temple recommend - I could explain why, if you would like to know). So he volunteers with us. We probably have kids from at least a dozen different denominations in the Troop right now, including B'hai.
Anti-Mormon? No. I'm closer to him than a brother and he's Mormon. Anti-Mormonism? Lying for the Lord is the kind of stuff that gets to me about Mormonism. Thanks for the stereotype.
Yes, Saundra, this post seems a bit fruity, desperate but very fruity.
This post is sneaky, delusional and desperate. I can't debate someone who has lost the sense of reality. The cult is strong with this one.....
Paragon? Are you back?
Continues to crush freedom of speech?
Way back on November 21, I responded to your joyful announcement of the new MormonVoices initiative (one manned by regular Mormons to clear misconceptions, an Ask a Mormon! site) by asking you What does Mormonism teach about Mormons becoming gods and having their own planets to populate with spirit children?
You've had free speech on Free Republic since November 21, thanks to Jim Robinson.
The answer to my question's been a little unclear since Maureen Dowd asked essentially the same question of Richard Bushman, the Visiting Professor in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University, and Kent P. Jackson, Associate Dean of Religion at Brigham Young University.
It's your time for free speech, Saundra. It has been since November 21. What does Mormonism teach about exalted Mormons becoming gods and having their own planets to populate with spirit children?
I don't need anyone else to answer, certainly no one you would consider anti-Mormon. Speak out. Jim Robinson has presented us with this wonderful forum. It's free speech. No restrictions. Speak out, Saundra.
When they do, they read LDS literature to one another to get back into the Mormon way of thinking...
“
In other words, the Caucus guidelines apply to every other religious persuasion EXCEPT The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.”
Perfectly reasonable, since it was Mormons who used a caucus designation to attack Christianity.
Be responsible
Don’t abuse the rules
Whine less
Man up
Don’t lie
Give up the liberal reliance on claiming to be a victim
... In other words, be a conservative!
PS - if you ever find any facts, evidence, or logical support for Mormonism, try posting it. In more than 6 years I’ve never seen any from a Mormon posting on FR. That speaks volumes.
condescend |ˌkändəˈsend| verb [ intrans. ]
show feelings of superiority; patronize : take care not to condescend to your reader.
do something in a haughty way, as though it is below one's dignity or level of importance :
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So, this is how they view Jesus? Sounds more like the elites in the mormon church.
I ask you sincerely to delete this entire thread where the anti Mormon dog pile has destroyed any hope of fair and free speech? I would very much appreciate it. Thank you and Merry Christmas.
Translation, people have been speaking out against my cult and I don't like it, so I want to hide their free speech since it is not what I wanted...
The irony of that comment is awesome SD!
Good job!
BTW Sandy, there is a great way to have this cease being an issue. Step into the light. You were a good conservative and at one time on of God's own. What are you really wasting it for, a pretty building full of phony people and or robots spouting the lies of con men? Are the very real and obvious lies of the LDS really worth this? Really? I mean you can't even answer basic questions put to you about this "faith" that has sucked you in. You ever think there is a reason for that?
And don't even get me started on Romney, that guy is not worthy of a once great conservative.
Come on wake the heck up...
I ask you sincerely, and I feel most posters on this thread would agree, that this thread NOT be deleted. Rather than fair and free speech be destroyed, it is the perfect example of the freedom of speech allowed on this forum.
Jim, it is your call of course, but I would like to see this thread stand. If people can't handle debate, then that is their issue. JMHO.
You are free to reply to the Pro-Christians at any point. Many of us are interested and waiting patiently for your answers..........
Sandy,
I understand your frustration, I do. When I was LDS I would ask questions and get the same pat responses. However, I got frustrated by how other LDS couldn’t or wouldn’t defend their faith, which is why I set out to be a Mormon apologist. I believed I could do better than what I was hearing. I believed Mormonism could be defended intellectually and Biblically.
Before I was LDS I had a professor state something to me that stuck with me, this is partly why I got so frustrated with the lack of real defense of Mormonism. She said “A faith that is not able to be defended, is a faith that is not worth having”. Please, think about that. Rather than cry ‘foul’ and play victim, try defending Mormonism, try proving us wrong. Do yourself a favor and really look at the claims we make, read the Bible all the way through, don’t just repeat what you are told by other LDS, try to really prove Mormonism true intellectually and Biblically IN CONTEXT. See if it stands. Defend your faith outside of what you are told. Your eyes will be opened.
I know it is scary, because there is a chance that you will lose your faith in Mormonism, but if you really believe in Christ and the doctrines you post here, then losing Mormonism won’t hurt you at all rather it will free you and that is what all of us ‘antis’ want.
Mormons are the epitome of ‘free speech for me and not for thee’.
It would a shame to delete this thread. This has to be one of the best threads to show the world what Mormonism really is and how they view Jesus.
It is also the perfect example of why we should be careful when using archaic definitions in our writing.
Pretty much. One of the ways LDS leadership keep the rank and file in line is by threatening them that if they do too much research or read non-LDS literature (esp religious), then they will ‘think themselves out of the Church’ or ‘lose their testimony’. Last year (IIRC) one of their leaders at conference stated that the goal of ‘antis’ was to make them lose their ‘testimony’ of the ‘restored Gospel’ and ‘Joseph Smith’. My response? Yep that is exactly my goal - to get people out of Mormonism and to Christ.
Why do seemingly smart mormon people refuse to do any homework when it comes to their faith? I read up on what the atheists are saying then go on to see if there is any truth it.
Why are Mormons afraid to test their faith?
Are they afraid of what they might find?
What was it like when you first started doubting the Mormon church?
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