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To: wmfights; boatbums; CynicalBear; metmom; Iscool; Quix; RnMomof7; HossB86; Gamecock; blue-duncan
During the time of Noah the Holy Spirit did not indwell man. It did convict man of it's sin, but it was not acting as a counselor to guide God's elect.

Hmmmm...So the nature, purpose and character of God's Spirit changed?

I would say that the Holy Spirit roll prior to the cross was just the same as after the cross. He was acting as a counselor to guide God's elect and there are a "number" of instances of this.

In Numbers for example we see this in effect where God puts his Spirit on the people:

We also see this in Judges when it states over and over, "The Spirit of the Lord was upon (fill in the blank)".

But no greater example exist than Saul's conversion at the hands of Samuel:

Yes, Saul turned out to be a big disappointment but he showed the people exactly what Samuel prophesied about what a king would be like.

But I would agree that starting with Pentecost, God put His Spirit in EVERY believer rather then just a few. So hope of Moses was fulfilled, where God put His Spirit on all His people.

I would submit that part of the reason my Reformed Brothers and Sisters struggle with eschatology is because they are trying to take how God interacts with us in one period and impose it in another.

I find few people except me seem to struggle with eschatology. And the reason I struggle with it is because I believe the scriptures are unclear on this unless one has an absolute grasp upon a great deal of ancient history in order to justly do a comparative analysis of the views. People want to poo-poo the first 1800 years of the church historical view in favor of a post-modern view of eschatology because it is simple and easy. Consequently it warps the doctrine of grace.

A simple illustration of this is what I tell just about everyone on this board and in which they end up taking offense; "God does not extend His special blessing to those who do not believe in His Son but His wrath rest upon them." This includes the Jews as well. People goes nutzo when I make this statement but it is a BIBLICALLY SOUND FACT. Their eschatology colors their logic of biblical stated truth.

But there is no such thing as "free" will. You have God's will and you have man's will. Man's will NEVER do God's will simply because it is completely opposite to God's will. God has to change that in order for man to do His will. The only two people that truly had "free will" was Adam and Christ.

256 posted on 12/18/2011 6:52:16 PM PST by HarleyD ("...what presumption, to prefer human tradition to divine ordinance"-Cyprian)
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To: HarleyD; boatbums; CynicalBear; metmom; Iscool; Quix; RnMomof7; HossB86; Gamecock; blue-duncan
I'm going to have to respond in bits and pieces so please bear with me.

Hmmmm...So the nature, purpose and character of God's Spirit changed?

I thought I was pretty clear on this point, but I'll try to go over it again. I'm suggesting that God interacts with his creation in different ways at different times. God does not change.

I would say that the Holy Spirit roll prior to the cross was just the same as after the cross. He was acting as a counselor to guide God's elect and there are a "number" of instances of this.

I disagree.

The passages you noted tell us the Holy Spirit was "upon" them. I don't believe you are going to find in the OT period the Holy Spirit permanently indwelling all believers.

Roms. 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Also, this role of the Holy Spirit only began after the crucifixion.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

258 posted on 12/18/2011 9:06:01 PM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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