Posted on 12/08/2011 2:01:52 PM PST by OneVike
Pharisee. You aren’t a Christian, so why should I care what you think?
2 Peter 3:16 “His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
You’ll never see him, that’s for sure.
This discussion is at an end.
“Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.”
Titus 3:9-11
Thus I am careful not to "paint all with the same brush," but rather continue to be amazed at how God has His people in many different churches. All the best as you serve Him.
Great advice!
Just for the record, I am in full agreement with you. Many of my comments were directed in a way to awaken a debate with those who refused to even consider the query.
I am not at all surprised that some would instantly go into the attack mode and demand my body be burned at the stake as a heretic for daring to suggest such a blasphemous idea just for the sake of discussion.
We are called to defend the faith and to do so in a respectful manner. Something that many who call themselves Christian at FR to learn. I do believe God likes it when we posture ideas in a way that spurs logical debate. We are told to always be ready to defend our faith, thus we study the written word.
But what about those questions that come out of left field, like what if there were no Bible, how could you defend your faith? Or, if a Korean asks a question about his great great ancestors who never heard of the name of Christ because no preacher ever visited their village 100's of years ago. Are they doomed to destruction? And if so, why is that fair of a loving God to do so.
Questions many Christians would not know how to answer, but for times when we ask off the wall questions to spur debate. The Korean question was asked of me by an orderly that worked in the kitchen at a retirement home I was a pastor at. At the time I answered the best I could, but I did do study on it. later I returned with a much better, and for him, a very satisfying answer. Plus I gave him a good book to read that I believe is a powerful tool to use with the Bible for instances just as his. the book is called "Eternity in the Hearts" by Don Richardson.
I'm sorry for digressing. Later that evening of the day I posted this thread, I found myself in contemplation on the matter. What really struck me about the thought of having no Bible was the very idea that there would never have been a reformation without the Bible, because the reformation was all about correcting the heresy that infiltrated the Churches teaching during the Devils millennium.
I speak of the middle ages from 600 to 1600 when the Catholic Church held an iron grip on the teachings of the written Word. Which is similar to the time between the Testaments when the Pharisees held a similar iron grip on the teachings of the Torah.
God Himself came to fulfill the Law the Pharisees had bastardized, but Christ is not to return until the end times, so He needed an intervention by man to correct the false teachings. Just as he told us that the Temple would be destroyed without a stone left in place, he also told us that men would come after Him to distort and spread lies about His teachings. Thus He sent His Spirit to guide good men into writing His Words down, and more men to chose the letters for the Canon. It was the Canon, His Word, that made it possible for the Reformation to take place.
So while God used the Church to advance many things, He also allowed a second fulness of times, if you would, that set up the Reformation which corrected the false teachings of His word. So without the Bible, Christ Himself would have had to return to save the Church from itself. Now, we all await the third fulness of time, when he will return a final time. He does like to do things in threes. It is after all the number of perfection.
I wrote my thesis at seminary school on the reformation. I basically wrote it about what I believed to be the beginning catalyst of the reformation, the Renaissance. If you are interested you can read it at my site, GATE.
Again I thank you for the respectful way you replied, and I apologize for the long read. I do tend to get long winded at times.
God bless you and yours,
OV
“What really struck me about the thought of having no Bible was the very idea that there would never have been a reformation without the Bible, because the reformation was all about correcting the heresy that infiltrated the Churches teaching during the Devils millennium.”
I agree with you...in fact your statement is similar to the thought that went through my mind as I read the article. We are in a time now that has seen many churches that used to teach from the Bible now abandon it and we are seeing the results of that within our culture. In my opinion we need to be very careful about these kind of discussions...”Does Christianity Need the Bible?”...because it does seem to fit into what is already happening in several churches, and might help those churches feel like they are doing the correct thing. My advice to your friend would be not to publish a book of this nature.
Speaking of books...”Eternity in the Hearts” by Don Richardson...is on my bookshelf. I have used it at times when I teach at different churches in the area...I am sure I will be using it again very soon as I prepare to teach at another church.
God bless you as well
Worldviewdad
When did God hire you as a spokesman and how much does the job pay??
>> “When did God hire you as a spokesman” <<
.
He hired all of his own, at the cross.
.
>> “and how much does the job pay??” <<
.
Eternal life.
.
Thanks and God Bless,
Worldviewdad
Exactly...However, it is not a reasonable question...God says he will preserve his words forever and that the world will pass away but his words will never pass away...
God chose the way of the bible as the means to preserve his words...
One needs to be more specific with the question...For example; what if the bible had never been written, or, what if all bibles suddenly disappeared today including all references to scripture, could we continue on with Christianity...
As long as we have the reference material, someone would be quick to write a bible in this generation...
If we forgo all the reference material, we have to depend on what of scripture we have 'hid in our hearts'...
It would be real tough to become a Christian without the availability of the bible...The scriptures tell us to 'prove all things'...Impossible to prove anything without the standard with which to judge...
So while the current generation may continue on until attrition does it work, I believe Christianity would soon fail to exist...
And without the writings of the Apostles, God would have come up with another means to preserve his words for the generations to come...
But fortunately, we will never be without the scriptures...
I don't buy that one...God provided the Apostles with the ability to provide miracles to the unbelievers in the absence of scripture until the scripture could be recorded...
And that process was completed and ended with the book of Revelation penned by John the Apostle...
With the death of the Apostles and advent of God's words on paper and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, not only did the office of Apostle end, but the Apostolic miracles ended as well...
And I am confident that there were enough copies of those scriptures during that time to satisfy God...
But naw, God didn't grow his church without the written word...
Prior to the written word, God used miracles to show his power...He shortly changed to the power of his written word to gather the lost...
Excellent advice...
We do...We just don't believe you...
So tell us...What other things did Jesus do...Surely he revealed them to your religion or you wouldn't keep pointing to the verse...
We can be sure that whatever other things Jesus did had nothing to do with our salvation because of these verses...
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Now these verses have been show directly to you many, many times...Yet you reject them...
Perhaps you have a spiritual block???
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
I don't know of any other explanation for your refusal to acknowledge that everything we need to know for salvation is written in the scriptures just as John says...
No he doesn't...
Thank you for your thoughts.
To me the question seemed to be a means of plowing the ground to plant the idea that it might be possible to have a Christianity without the Bible, something I don’t think is possible.
Cheers!
That's rich...HaHaHaHa...
Just the one time they'll meet...
I agree...The name Christian has been so watered down that it has practically lost its meaning...
There are however religions out that that do very nicely without the bible...And then we have those who don't rely on the scriptures but use random verses to add an air of legitimacy to their claim of Christian...
Pharisee.
I understand your point (I think) about quoting random verses,i.e., something that is not really pertinent to the point the person is attempting to make.
Otherwise though quoting a single verse and showing its relevance seems quite proper and desirable at times. We stand in good company when doing so.
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