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I'm gonna have to agree with you there, pnsn. I do sense quite a bit of jealousy - especially since they aren't allowed to say they KNOW they have eternal life. Their leaders have convinced them that to say that is a sin of "presumption". Imagine that! For someone to acknowledge that God WILL save those who come to Christ by faith and to profess that God wants us to know we HAVE eternal life and that is why he said so over and over again in Scripture, is acknowledging trust in God. To insist that NO ONE can know, is actually calling God a liar. I would NOT want to be them facing him at their judgment. "But...but...buuu...I didn't think you really MEANT it!" That will not be a happy day.

they aren't allowed to say they KNOW they have eternal life. Their leaders have convinced them that to say that is a sin of "presumption". Imagine that!

Are you serious? Well then that explains much! Oh dear, how tightly they're entwined and kept away from what could otherwise be....makes you want to cry for them...and I thought I'd done that enough already.

God wants us to know we HAVE eternal life and that is why he said so over and over again in Scripture, is acknowledging trust in God.

Exactly. FAITH in Jesus and what He has ALREADY done for us.

To insist that NO ONE can know, is actually calling God a liar.

The apostles knew, Paul knew "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you". Phil 1:23

And Jesus said - "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you TO BE with ME that YOU, also, MAY BE WHERE I am ." John 14:3

And those are only two examples. Like you said, boatbums, God told us over and over in His Word. But, who, since the beginning of time has been trying to prove God's Word a lie? 'Did God really say..' And what spirit would that be in those man made teachings since we wrestle not with flesh and blood. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places."

"I didn't think you really MEANT it!" That will not be a happy day.

Nor a happy eternity. "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live".

And they chose death and curses. When they see Him face to face - they will fall down speechless for they will see the face of TRUTH but it will be too late. Many are hell bent on following man and their man made teachings.