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To: rzman21
The trouble with Protestant readings of scripture is that they rip the New Testament out of the culture that Jesus and the apostles lived in, nor the Hellenistic Gentile world they were preaching in.

That is a frequent failing of American contemporary Protestant theology.

This pattern of worship is still recognizable to any Eastern Christian because this theme is found throughout the prayers of the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Churches. The Greek says: εἰς τὸ εἶναι με λειτουργὸν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ εἰς τὰ ἔθνη, ἱερουργοῦντα τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα γένηται ἡ προσφορὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν εὐπρόσδεκτος ἡγιασμένη ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ. Leitourgos is a term found in the Septuagint referring to the priests of the Old Covenant. 3011 leitourgós (a masculine noun derived from leitos, "belonging to the people" and 2041 /érgon, "work") – properly, an official servant (minister) who works for the good of the community. In the NT (and LXX), this root (leitourg-) is especially used for priestly-service given to God, impacting all who witness it. [3011 (leitourgós) was originally a term for public service done by an official minister of the State. In classical Greek, it means "one who discharges a public office at his own expense, then, generally, a public servant, a minister, servant" (Abbott-Smith). That is, "a servant of the state, assuming public office to be administered at his own expense" (L & N, 1, 461, fn 5).] While prosphora means sacrifice, and it remains the name given by the Greek Church to the loaf of bread that is offered by the priest in the Divine Liturgy. It is connected with the Greek term prosphero, which means a bloodless sacrifice. offering up. From prosphero; presentation; concretely, an oblation (bloodless) or sacrifice -- offering (up). Ver. 16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering (ἱερουργοὕντα) the Gospel of God. For after his abundant proof of his statements, he draws his discourse to a more lofty tone, not speaking of mere service, as in the beginning, but of service and priestly ministering (λειτουργίαν καί ὶερουργίαν). For to me this is a priesthood, this preaching and declaring. This is the sacrifice I bring. Now no one will find fault with a priest, for being anxious to offer the sacrifice without blemish. And he says this at once to elevate (πτερὥν) their thoughts, and show them that they are a sacrifice, and in apology for his own part in the matter, because he was appointed to this office. For my knife, he says, is the Gospel, the word of the preaching. And the cause is not that I may be glorified, not that I may appear conspicuous, but that the offering up (προσφορὰ) of the Gentiles may be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. That is, that the souls of those that are taught by me, may be accepted.

Very good. The office of priest is supposed to be largely anonymous - that is the advantage of the ad orientam. The cult of personality - the Joel Osteens and the Rick Warrens and the Robert Schullers depend upon the recognition of the people. Whereas it does not matter who the servant of the servants of God is who celebrates the Mass. We have Mass each day. There is no celebration or recognition of the individual, or should not be. Father Phleger in Chicago is an exception and has needed removal for decades...

But when he says of the Gentiles, he means the whole world, the land, and the whole sea, to take down their haughtiness, that they might not disdain to have him for a teacher, who was putting himself forth (τεινόμενον) to the very end of the world. As he said in the beginning, as among the other Gentiles also, I am a debtor to Greeks, and also to barbarians, to wise, and to foolish. Romans 1:13-14

Yes. All the world. And I must count myself amongst the foolish barbarians; but I am ever grateful to God for my baptism into the Church.

3,597 posted on 12/11/2011 2:58:37 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

American Protestants read the Bible in the light (or I’d say darkness) of individualistic modern American culture. If anything is cultish, it’s the Evangelical worship of American nationalism.

I don’t mean to knock the Roman rite, but what St. Paul describes has remained far more explicit in the Eastern liturgies, especially with the epiclesis. I immediately recognized this when I was reading the Greek.

The 4th century Liturgy of St. James says:
In the Liturgy of Saint James, according to the form in which it is celebrated on the island of Zakinthos, Greece, the anaphora is as follows:
Priest (aloud): Thy people and Thy Church entreat Thee. (thrice)
People: Have mercy on us, Lord God, the Father, the Almighty. (thrice)
The Priest, in a low voice: Have mercy on us, Lord God, the Father, the Almighty. Have mercy on us, God our Saviour. Have mercy on us, O God, in accordance with Thy great mercy, and send forth upon these holy gifts, here set forth, Thine all-holy Spirit, (bowing) the Lord and giver of life, enthroned with Thee, God and Father, and Thine only-begotten Son, co-reigning, consubstantial and co-eternal, who spoke by the Law and the Prophets and by Thy New Covenant, who came down in the form of a dove upon our Lord Jesus Christ in the river Jordan, and rested upon him, who came down upon Thy holy Apostles in the form of fiery tongues in the upper room of holy and glorious Sion on the day of Pentecost. (Standing up) Thy same all-holy Spirit, Lord, send down on us and on these gifts here set forth,
(aloud): that having come by his holy, good and glorious presence, He may sanctify this bread and make it the holy Body of Christ,
People: Amen.
Priest: and this Cup (chalice) the precious Blood of Christ,
People: Amen.
The Priest signs the holy Gifts and says in a low voice: that they may become for all those who partake of them for forgiveness of sins and everlasting life. For sanctification of souls and bodies. For a fruitful harvest of good works. For the strengthening of Thy holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which Thou didst found on the rock of the faith, so that the gates of Hell might not prevail against it, delivering it from every heresy and from the scandals caused by those who work iniquity, and from the enemies who arise and attack it, until the consummation of the age.


3,601 posted on 12/11/2011 3:08:11 PM PST by rzman21
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