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To: MarkBsnr
We Catholics bow our heads (literally) and we plead for mercy from Him. We do not declare that we are the Church and we get to declare our own salvation. Now, that is pride. I'd like to see that when they offer that up to the King of Kings.

Bowing the head and/or the knees is NOT what God requires for salvation. It MUST be the emotional and intellectual equivalent of doing so that God wants and, only then, is the physical act accepted. By confessing with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised him from the dead is what God says saves us. One who has done so can be assured of eternal life and to continue to beg and plead for God's mercy to save us after he has already done so is demonstrating a lack of faith not a humble faith.

When you say "We do not declare that we are the Church", are you speaking as an individual or as a member of a Church that most certainly DOES declare that "we, and ONLY we, are the Church". What you label as "pride" only appears so to those who do not have confidence in the promises of God. In fact, I think it is MORE prideful to think I must still do more to earn my salvation. When we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ we leave ALL pride at the foot of the cross because we can do nothing of ourselves to merit the unspeakable gift of God's grace. God gives us the choice, believe and be saved or reject the gift and be damned. Those who do not believe are condemned already, Jesus said. Those who believe are NOT condemned, he also proclaimed.

2,918 posted on 12/05/2011 10:11:53 PM PST by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums
Bowing the head and/or the knees is NOT what God requires for salvation. It MUST be the emotional and intellectual equivalent of doing so that God wants and, only then, is the physical act accepted.

Oh dear, is a Protestant apologist preaching 'works' now? You must do before you are saved? My, my. May I ask for further explanation?

By confessing with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised him from the dead is what God says saves us. One who has done so can be assured of eternal life and to continue to beg and plead for God's mercy to save us after he has already done so is demonstrating a lack of faith not a humble faith.

So it is only by doing the works of God that one is saved? I am truly astonished at your post. If you have experienced a change of heart, then I welcome your conversion.

2,946 posted on 12/06/2011 8:43:32 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: boatbums
When you say "We do not declare that we are the Church", are you speaking as an individual"

That is correct. I do not presume the arrogance of that level of declaration.

What you label as "pride" only appears so to those who do not have confidence in the promises of God.

I have confidence in God. It is the riff raff of the Reformation and their empty promises that I have no confidence in.

In fact, I think it is MORE prideful to think I must still do more to earn my salvation.

Tsk, tsk, you MUST read your own posts a little more thoroughly.

When we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ we leave ALL pride at the foot of the cross because we can do nothing of ourselves to merit the unspeakable gift of God's grace. God gives us the choice, believe and be saved or reject the gift and be damned. Those who do not believe are condemned already, Jesus said. Those who believe are NOT condemned, he also proclaimed.

Matthew 22:37 "You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, and with all your mind, (and) you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

If you do not do as Jesus commands, you are denied salvation.

Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Ah, there we have it. Evil doers will be rejected by God at their Judgement. Those who do as Jesus commands will be accepted by God at their Judgement.

I welcome a change in a heart that may formerly have been as stony as a Biblical execution. Thank you for sharing this with us.

2,948 posted on 12/06/2011 8:53:53 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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