Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
Your Mary escapades speak for themselves. Call it what you want. I know a prominent Pope who said the words: “Mary worship.” Perhaps he just mispoke. Perhaps he meant to say “Mary hyperdulia” and it came out “worship Mary”. I don’t know. But when people fall prostrate on the ground and claim healing just by seeing her apparition, then it’s a duck.
I love your use of Occam’s razor.
l really think you might actually get into this study, give it a try.Of course study might lead to the truth. Ignorance is bliss, the Devil says.
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
That has been proven wrong so many times...
and you know what else you won’t find anywhere in the NT?
you won’t find anyone reading the Scriptures and based on their own private interpretation, attacking the Church and starting their own “church”.
That's true...Because God says that private interpretation is prohibited, such as your religion has done...And without private interpretation, your religion has been drug out of the closet and exposed with a clear understanding and reading of the plain scriptures...
It is only by prohibited private interpretation that your religion can exist...
i asked Hoss a question in post #1015 that he hasn’t answered, that i never have received an answer to.
so i throw it out to all the “sola scriptura” types on here.
i need to turn in, i will check in tomorrow to see if anyone can tell me who ( if anyone ) can infallibly say what the true canon of Scripture is.
Ah, the doctrine of Sola Ad Hominem.
A content-free post. Dare pondus idonea fumo.
Other than that: May God bless you and bring you the peace of Christ!
The Church of Rome has been operating with one lung for the past 1,000 years.
Catholic truth is more than just the Roman Church. The Roman magisterium has taught many truths, but they frequently have been one-sided and lacked the breadth that existed prior to the schism.
“But it will be said, If the words, the sentiments, the promises of Scripture, are appealed to by the Devil and his disciples, of whom some are false apostles, some false prophets and false teachers, and all without exception heretics, what are Catholics and the sons of Mother Church to do? How are they to distinguish truth from falsehood in the sacred Scriptures? They must be very careful to pursue that course which, in the beginning of this Commonitory, we said that holy and learned men had commended to us, that is to say, they must interpret the sacred Canon according to the traditions of the Universal Church and in keeping with the rules of Catholic doctrine, in which Catholic and Universal Church, moreover, they must follow universality, antiquity, consent.”
Vincent of Lerins,Commonitories,70(A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:152
“Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters, not taking into consideration of how much greater consequence is a religious man, even in a private station, than a blasphemous and impudent sophist. Now, such are all the heretics, and those who imagine that they have hit upon something more beyond the truth, so that by following those things already mentioned, proceeding on their way variously, in harmoniously, and foolishly, not keeping always to the same opinions with regard to the same things, as blind men are led by the blind, they shall deservedly fall into the ditch of ignorance lying in their path, ever seeking and never finding out the truth. It behoves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord’s Scriptures.”
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,5,20:2(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:548
“Since this is the case, in order that the truth may be adjudged to belong to us, “as many as walk according to the rule,” which the church has handed down from the apostles, the apostles from Christ, and Christ from God, the reason of our position is clear, when it determines that heretics ought not to be allowed to challenge an appeal to the Scriptures, since we, without the Scriptures, prove that they have nothing to do with the Scriptures. For as they are heretics, they cannot be true Christians, because it is not from Christ that they get that which they pursue of their own mere choice, and from the pursuit incur and admit the name of heretics. Thus, not being Christians, they have acquired no right to the Christian Scriptures; and it may be very fairly said to them, “Who are you? When and whence did you come?”
Tertullian,Prescription against the heretics,37(A.D. 200),in ANF,III:261
“Now the cause, in all the points previously enumerated, of the false opinions, and of the impious statements or ignorant assertions about God, appears to be nothing else than the not understanding the Scripture according to its spiritual meaning, but the interpretation of it agreeably to the mere letter. And therefore, to those who believe that the sacred books are not the compositions of men, but that they were composed by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, agreeably to the will of the Father of all things through Jesus Christ, and that they have come down to us, we must point out the ways (of interpreting them) which appear (correct) to us, who cling to the standard of the heavenly Church of Jesus Christ according to the succession of the apostles. “
Origen,First Principles,4,1:9(A.D. 230),in ANF,IV:357
“The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shall be outside of the Church. The Lord warns, saying, ‘He who is not with me is against me, and he who gathereth not with me scattereth.’ “
Cyprian,Unity of the Church,6(A.D. 256),in ANF,V:423
“But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures....Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions[ie. The creed] which ye now receive, and write them an the table of your heart.”
Cyril of Jerusalem,Catechetical Lectures,5:12(A.D. 350),in NPNF2,VII:32
“[T]hey who are placed without the Church, cannot attain to any understanding of the divine word. For the ship exhibits a type of Church, the word of life placed and preached within which, they who are without, and lie near like barren and useless sands, cannot understand.”
Hilary of Poitiers,On Matthew,Homily 13:1(A.D. 355),in FOC,I:347
“But beyond these [Scriptural] sayings, let us look at the very tradition, teaching and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, the Apostles preached, and the Fathers kept.”
Athanasius,Four Letters to Serapion of Thmuis,1:28(A.D. 360),in SHAP,133-134
“This then I consider the sense of this passage, and that, a very ecclesiasitcal sense.”
Athanasius,Discourse Against the Arians,1:44(A.D. 362),in NPNF2,IV:331
“It is the church which perfect truth perfects. The church of believers is great, and its bosom most ample; it embraces the fullness of the two Testaments.”
Ephraem,Against Heresies(ante A.D. 373),in FOC,I:378
“Now I accept no newer creed written for me by other men, nor do I venture to propound the outcome of my own intelligence, lest I make the words of true religion merely human words; but what I have been taught by the holy Fathers, that I announce to all who question me. In my Church the creed written by the holy Fathers in synod at Nicaea is in use. I believe that it is also repeated among you; but I do not refuse to write its exact terms in my letter, lest I be accused of taking too little trouble. It is as follows: This is our faith. But no definition was given about the Holy Ghost, the Pneumatomachi not having at that date appeared. No mention was therefore made of the need of anathematizing those who say that the Holy Ghost is of a created anti ministerial nature. For nothing in the divine and blessed Trinity is created.”
Basil,To the Church of Antioch,Epistle 140:2(A.D. 373),in NPNF2,VIII:204
“For they [heretics] do not teach as the church does; their message does no accord with the truth.”
Epiphanius,Panarion,47(A.D. 377),in PAN,168
“[S]eeing, I say, that the Church teaches this in plain language, that the Only-begotten is essentially God, very God of the essence of the very God, how ought one who opposes her decisions to overthrow the preconceived opinion... And let no one interrupt me, by saying that what we confess should also be confirmed by constructive reasoning: for it is enough for proof of our statement, that the tradition has come down to us from our fathers, handled on, like some inheritance, by succession from the apostles and the saints who came after them.”
Gregory of Nyssa,Against Eunomius,4:6(A.D. 384),in NPNF2,V:163
“Wherefore all other generations are strangers to truth; all the generations of heretics hold not the truth: the church alone, with pious affection, is in possession of the truth.”
Ambrose,Commentary of Psalm 118,19(A.D. 388),in FOC,I;171
“They teach what they themselves have learnt from their predecessors. They have received those rites which they explain from the Church’s tradition. They preach only ‘the dogmas of the Church’ “
Chrysostom,Baptismal Instruction(A.D. 389),in CON,445
“But when proper words make Scripture ambiguous, we must see in the first place that there is nothing wrong in our punctuation or pronunciation. Accordingly, if, when attention is given to the passage, it shall appear to be uncertain in what way it ought to be punctuated or pronounced, let the reader consult the rule of faith which he has gathered from the plainer passages of Scripture, and from the authority of the Church, and of which I treated at sufficient length when I was speaking in the first book about things.”
Augustine,On Christian Doctrine,3,2:2(A.D. 397),in NPNF1,II:557
” ‘So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by Epistle of ours.’ Hence it is manifest, that they did not deliver all things by Epistle, but many things also unwritten, and in like manner both the one and the other are worthy of credit. Therefore let us think the tradition of the Church also worthy of credit. It is a tradition, seek no farther.”
Chrysostom,Homily on 2nd Thessalonians,4:2(A.D. 404),in NPNF1,XIII:390
“My resolution is, to read the ancients, to try everything, to hold fast what is good, and not to recede from the fath of the Catholic Church.”
Jerome,To Minervius & Alexander,Epistle 119(A.D. 406),in FOC,I:73
“But those reasons which I have here given, I have either gathered from the authority of the church, according to the tradition of our forefathers, or from the testimony of the divine Scriptures, or from the nature itself of numbers and of similitudes. No sober person will decide against reason, no Christian against the Scriptures, no peaceable person against the church.”
Augustine,On the Trinity,4,6:10(A.D. 416),in NPNF1,III:75
“But it will be said, If the words, the sentiments, the promises of Scripture, are appealed to by the Devil and his disciples, of whom some are false apostles, some false prophets and false teachers, and all without exception heretics, what are Catholics and the sons of Mother Church to do? How are they to distinguish truth from falsehood in the sacred Scriptures? They must be very careful to pursue that course which, in the beginning of this Commonitory, we said that holy and learned men had commended to us, that is to say, they must interpret the sacred Canon according to the traditions of the Universal Church and in keeping with the rules of Catholic doctrine, in which Catholic and Universal Church, moreover, they must follow universality, antiquity, consent.”
Vincent of Lerins,Commonitories,70(A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:152
“[H]old fast the faith in simplicity of mind; establishing the tradition of the church as a foundation, in the inmost recesses of thy heart, hold the doctrines which are well-pleasing unto God.”
Cyril of Alexandria,Festal Letters,Homily 8(A.D. 442),in FOC,I:446-447
But thanks for your concern.
What’s wrong with prohibited interpretations?
If that’s the case, knock yourself out and become a Mormon or a Gnostic.
Presently no screen name wasn't referring to the Holy Father...What was being referred to was that sinner over there in Rome whom you call your pope...
There is only one Holy Father and that is God Almighty...Not some guy who dresses like a circus clown sittin' on a throne in Rome...
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
You've been there done that, decoded it, learned the lingo, and got the T Shirt.
Seriously, give my suggestion a try. It won't corrupt you, I promise.
:)
The Holy Spirit who makes sure that only those books that have no errors or contradictions are held as truth by those He indwells.
They don’t care. The only thing they want is to be secure in their anti-Catholicism.
Sola anti-Catholicism. As I said before, accepting that the Ockhamist reading of scripture is insufficient is too much of a threat.
So when you are in a box you go into denial.
Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Do not use potty language on the Religion Forum
And what Faith was that??? Justin Martyr never quoted a verse in the New Testament...
With all the centuries that have gone by, there are relatively few Church fathers you guys turn to for your history...
Makes one wonder how many leaders back in that day wrote things contrary to your religion's belief that have been destroyed or are hidden away in your secret Vatican archives...
Or how many other unmentioned Church fathers there were who wrote things that were 'too far out' for public consumption...
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