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To: RnMomof7

(*sigh*) Please tell me you’re joking?

Am I the only one who sees the irony of a “once-saved-always-saved”, “sola Scriptura”, “sola fide” believer trying to rebuke people for “following the traditions of men”?

If you’d be so kind as to show me where any of the above are taught (chapter and verse, please) in Holy Scripture, then I might be a bit more inclined to take your argument seriously.

By the way... a word to the wise: if you’re going to attack a Catholic doctrine, it’s really best to attack the ACTUAL doctrine, rather than a caricature/straw-man. To wit: Purgatory is only relevant to those who are SAVED... not to the damned. When one dies, there are only two possible final outcomes: Heaven (possibly with purification in Purgatory, first, if attachment to sin or temporal punishment is still in need of being removed), or hell.

Let me say that again, clearly: PURGATORY IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR HELL. I assure you (and anyone intellectually honest enough to check the Catechism of the Catholic Church can confirm this, easily), the Catholic Church teaches the grim reality of Hell, and She always has. Those who are damned (i.e. who die, unrepentant, in a state of mortal sin) do not go to Purgatory; they go straight (and irrevocably) to hell.


81 posted on 10/29/2011 6:18:52 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan

First and foremost is the evidence of Scripture. John 3:15-18 says about Christ: “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”

The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.

In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins — past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24, among others.

Once Saved, Always Saved – The Logical Evidence
As with many other scriptural doctrines, the idea of “once saved, always saved” is also supported logically. Eternal security is consistent with everything else the Bible teaches about mankind, and God. Examining the doctrine in relation to the rest of Scripture demonstrates that it is consistent with all other biblically sound teachings. The idea of losing our salvation is not only unscriptural, but it creates monumental problems with other doctrines, including salvation by faith, the sin nature of man, and the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice.

The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful — that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.


113 posted on 10/29/2011 7:16:26 PM PDT by Carl from Marietta (Herman Cain 2012..get on the CAIN train! Content of Character, that's the ticket!)
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To: paladinan
Let me say that again, clearly: PURGATORY IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR HELL. I assure you (and anyone intellectually honest enough to check the Catechism of the Catholic Church can confirm this, easily), the Catholic Church teaches the grim reality of Hell, and She always has. Those who are damned (i.e. who die, unrepentant, in a state of mortal sin) do not go to Purgatory; they go straight (and irrevocably) to hell.

NO ONE SAID PURGATORY IS A REPLACEMENT FOR HELL...it is however a replacement for the atonement of Christ ..it is man cleaning up himself so he can be worthy of standing before God.. When one believes in purgatory one makes the cross of Christ of no effect...

272 posted on 10/30/2011 9:01:45 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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