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Purgatory: Purifying Fire or Fatal Fable?
Proclaiming the Glory of Jesus Christ in Mexico ^ | 10/29/2011 | Mike Gendron

Posted on 10/29/2011 3:31:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7

Catholics who believe a purifying fire will purge away their sins are deluded victims of a fatal fabrication. The invention of a place for purification of sins called Purgatory is one of the most seductive attractions of the Roman Catholic religion. Pastor John MacArthur of Grace Community Church described this deceptive hoax brilliantly. He said: "Purgatory is what makes the whole system work. Take out Purgatory and it's a hard sell to be a Catholic. Purgatory is the safety net, when you die, you don't go to hell. You go [to Purgatory] and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven if you've been a good Catholic. In the Catholic system you can never know you're going to heaven. You just keep trying and trying...in a long journey toward perfection. Well, it's pretty discouraging. People in that system are guilt-ridden, fear-ridden and have no knowledge of whether or not they're going to get into the Kingdom. If there's no Purgatory, there's no safety net to catch me and give me some opportunity to get into heaven. It's a second chance, it's another chance after death" (from "The Pope and the Papacy").

The Origin of Purgatory

There was no mention of Purgatory during the first two centuries of the church. However, when Roman Emperor Theodosius (379-395) decreed that Christianity was to be the official religion of the empire, thousands of pagans flooded into the Church and brought their pagan beliefs and traditions with them. One of those ancient pagan beliefs was a place of purification where souls went to make satisfaction for their sins.

The concept became much more widespread around 600 A.D. due to the fanaticism of Pope Gregory the Great. He developed the doctrine through visions and revelations of a Purgatorial fire. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (CE), Pope Gregory said Catholics "will expiate their faults by purgatorial flames," and "the pain [is] more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life." Centuries later, at the Council of Florence (1431), it was pronounced an infallible dogma. It was later reaffirmed by the Council of Trent (1564). The dogma is based largely on Catholic tradition from extra- biblical writings and oral history. "So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity" (CE). It seems incomprehensible that Rome would admit to using a pagan tradition for the defense of one of its most esteemed "Christian" doctrines.

The Deception of Purgatory

Purgatory comes from the Latin word “purgare,” which means to make clean or to purify. The Catholic Encyclopedia defines purgatory as "a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." They must be purified of these "venial" sins before they can be allowed into heaven. Here we see Catholicism perpetuating the seductive lie of Satan by declaring "you will not surely die" when you commit venial sins (Gen. 3:4). The Council of Trent dares to declare that "God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction and will punish sin...The sinner, failing to do penance in this life, may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God." (Session 15, Can. XI). Those Catholic Bishops had the audacity to declare that the suffering and death of God's perfect man and man's perfect substitute was not sufficient to satisfy divine justice for sin.

The Motivation for Purgatory

Over the centuries billions of dollars have been paid to Roman Catholic priests to obtain relief from imaginary sufferings in Purgatory's fire. The Catholic clergy has always taught that the period of suffering in Purgatory can be shortened by purchasing indulgences and novenas, buying Mass cards and providing gifts of money. When a Catholic dies, money is extracted from mourning loved ones to shorten the deceased's punishment in Purgatory. When my dear old dad passed away as a devout Catholic of 79 years, I was amazed at the hundreds of Mass cards purchased for him by well-meaning friends. We have heard of other Catholics who have willed their entire estates to their religion so that perpetual masses could be offered for them after they die. It is no wonder that the Catholic religion has become the richest institution in the world. The buying and selling of God's grace has been a very lucrative business for the Vatican.

Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!

Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!

Another motivation for Rome to fabricate the heretical doctrine of Purgatory is its powerful effect on controlling people. Ultimately, the enslavement and subjugation of people is the goal of every false religion, and Purgatory does exactly that. The concept of a terrifying prison with a purging fire, governed by religious leaders, is a most brilliant invention. It holds people captive, not only in this life but also in the next life. Catholic clergy will not say how many years people have to suffer for their sins or how many Masses must be purchased before they can be released from the flames. This dreadful fear and uncertainty is the most ruthless form of religious bondage and deception!

Biblical Support for Purgatory

There is absolutely none! In fact, neither the word nor the concept of sin-purifying fire is found in Scripture. The Vatican was confronted with this in the 16th century when the Reformers protested its practice of buying and selling of God's grace through indulgences. Backed into a corner, the Council of Trent added the apocryphal books to its canon of Scripture. Rome now declares there is scriptural support for purgatory in the apocryphal book of Second Maccabees. The council ignored the fact that the Jewish scribes never recognized the apocryphal books as inspired or part of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were never included because of their many historical, theological and geographical errors. Since God is not the author of error, He obviously did not inspire the writers of the Apocrypha. This is why the Apocrypha was never included in the original canon of 66 books. ..........."

The Biblical Rebuke of Purgatory

God's Word leaves absolutely no possibility for sin to be purged away by anything other than the blood of Jesus Christ. The beloved apostle John penned these words with irrefutable clarity. He wrote, "The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin" and "all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:7, 9). John did not say "some" sins or "most" sins, but all sin! This soundly rebukes the need for a sin-purging fire. God's Word also declares, "All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Heb. 9:22). When Jesus "made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3). Those who desire to have their sins purged need to trust a person, not a place. The blood of Christ is the only cleansing agent for sin! Those who come to the cross of Christ must come with empty hands of faith, bringing nothing but their sins.

Every blood-bought believer is instantly present with their Redeemer at the moment of death. To be "absent from the body" is to be "at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8). This good news was affirmed by the Lord Jesus with the promise He gave to the repentant thief at Calvary. He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). This habitual sinner did not need a fire to purge his sins.

Catholics who believe in Purgatory need to be asked: "Who is in charge of releasing souls from the purging fire?" It cannot be God because of His promise to believers. "Their sins and iniquities I will remember no more" (Heb. 10:17). After conversion, God no longer counts sins against His children (2 Cor. 5:19).

Purgatory is a travesty on the justice of God and a disgraceful fabrication that robs Christ Jesus of His glory and honor. He alone satisfied divine justice, once and for all, by the perfect and finished sacrifice of Himself. The fatal deception of Purgatory blinds Catholics from the glorious Gospel of grace. It is one of Satan's many lies which keep his captives from knowing and trusting the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. It is Christ alone that will present us "faultless before the presence of his glory" (Jude 24).


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholism; christ; purification; revisionisthistory; salvation; yopios
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To: RnMomof7

Where’s the infallible teaching in the Bible that Jesus told his disciples to go write a book?


221 posted on 10/29/2011 10:01:30 PM PDT by moonhawk ((Broken)Heartless Hobbit for Sarah...)
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To: conservativguy99
"The Gospels and epistles were circulating in Asia, Syria, and Alexandria (less certainly in ROme), and being read and discussed in the Christian synogogues there by about 100 A.D."

Since being Christian was a capital offense throughout the Roman Empire there were very few "Christian synagogues". It is ironic that St. Polycarp, one who was actually a student of the Apostle John and is one of the biggest proponents of Apostolic tradition is cited as an authority by those who reject much of his writings.

222 posted on 10/29/2011 10:04:12 PM PDT by Natural Law (Transubstantiation - Change we can believe in.)
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To: cva66snipe
"It can be safely reasoned Christ ministry was in His peoples own language."

It is far more likely that Jesus had the gift of tongues and spoke Latin than to suggest that the Roman magistrate and a centurion were conversant in Aramaic or Hebrew.

223 posted on 10/29/2011 10:08:12 PM PDT by Natural Law (Transubstantiation - Change we can believe in.)
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To: RnMomof7

Yes it does. It says that Purgatory is for those whose salvation is not clear,who are anxious, who are not yet saved and might become saved via purgatory.

All of those things are utter and complete falsehoods as far as Catholic teaching is concerned.

You posted sheer crap.


224 posted on 10/29/2011 10:36:37 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: CynicalBear

In Catholic teaching, Purgatory is NOT a second chance. Your one and only chance is at the point of death. No second chance after that.

That’s Catholic teaching.

The article lies.


225 posted on 10/29/2011 10:38:25 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Natural Law

OK then in what language you suppose Pilate used too address the mob calling for Christ death? Keep in mind they understood him plainly and these were commoners the priest had incited to nearly riot. I don’t doubt for a second Christ had the gift of tounges but he really didn’t need it if he wished to convey a message to someone individually. Remember He knew their very thoughts before they got uttered. But His ministry to Gentile in His public ministry was very limited and in Mark ch 7 v 27 he makes that very plain to a Gentile woman.


226 posted on 10/29/2011 10:40:58 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Houghton M.

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227 posted on 10/29/2011 10:41:52 PM PDT by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: Houghton M.

Good point. It reminds me of quote by Bishop Fulton Sheen. “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”


228 posted on 10/29/2011 11:20:09 PM PDT by phil413
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To: Carl from Marietta
“Today you will be with me in paradise”,

Here's a few passages, for starters, of Scripture you've apparently never read Carl:

"And Noemi answered her: Blessed be he of the Lord: because the same kindness which he shewed to the living, he hath kept also to the dead. And again she said: The man is our kinsman." Ruth 2:20

"O Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, hear now the prayer of the dead of Israel, and of their children, that have sinned before Thee, and have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord their God, wherefore evils have cleaved fast to us." Baruch 3:4

"But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and the torment of death shall not touch them. In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure was taken for misery: And their going away from us, for utter destruction: but they are in peace. And though in the sight of men they suffered torments, their hope is full of immortality. Afflicted in few things, in many they shall be well rewarded: because God hath tried them, and found them worthy of Himself. As gold in the furnace He hath proved them, and as a victim of a holocaust He hath received them, and in time there shall be respect had to them. The just shall shine, and shall run to and fro like sparks among the reeds." Wisdom 3:1-7

"Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought Him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with Godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." 2 Machabees 12:41-45

"Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing." Matthew 5:25-26

"But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36

"And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil." Luke 23:41

"Jesus saith to her: Do not touch Me, for I am not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brethren, and say to them: I ascend to My Father and to your Father, to My God and your God." John 20:17(emphasis added)

"But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Therefore every one of us shall render account to God for himself." Romans 14:10-12

"According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire. Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are." 1 Corinthians 3:10-17

"For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil." 2 Corinthians 5:10

"Wherein you shall greatly rejoice, if now you must be for a little time made sorrowful in divers temptations: That the trial of your faith (much more precious than gold which is tried by the fire) may be found unto praise and glory and honour at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 1:6-7

"Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that He might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, In which also coming He preached to those spirits that were in prison: Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water." 1 Peter 3:18-20(emphasis added)

"For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit." 1 Peter 4:6

"Dearly beloved, think not strange the burning heat which is to try you, as if some new thing happened to you; But if you partake of the sufferings of Christ, rejoice that when His glory shall be revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy." 1 Peter 4:12-13

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16(emphasis added)

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold fire tried, that thou mayest be made rich; and mayest be clothed in white garments, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear; and anoint thy eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance." Apocalypse 3:18-19

"There shall not enter into it any thing defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie: but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb." Apocalypse 21:27

that prompted Luther to seek the real church.

If you think that the actions of Johann Tetzel; which weren't sanctioned by the Church, alone caused the paranoid, schizophrenic, anti-semitic, alchoholic who couldn't control his libido, aka Martin Luther, to formulate his own doctrine then you're as ignorant of that nut as you are of Scripture.

By the way, what's your explanation for Luther siding with the rabbinic Jews who rejected Jesus in removing seven books; while proposing to remove a total of ten books from both the Old and New Testaments, from the Old Testament, adding the word "alone" to his version of Romans 3:28 and calling the Epistle of James "an epistle of straw"? Does anybody in Marietta even give that more than a passing thought or is it part and parcel of your exercise in revisionist history?

229 posted on 10/29/2011 11:23:35 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: RnMomof7
Since, by definition, we are all sinners, I'll be seeing you in hell.
230 posted on 10/29/2011 11:52:04 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
Then, by all means, please stop rejecting the Word.
231 posted on 10/29/2011 11:55:47 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: HossB86
That Jesus took the thief to Heaven that day says nothing about Purgatory. Jesus, being God, can pretty much do whatever He wants. If He decided the thief got a Get-Out-Of-Purgatory free card, then the thief got to skip Purgatory.

Moreover, I think a reasonable interpretation is that the thief made a good confession to Jesus whilst they were on the cross, thus cleansing his soul. A sinless soul gets to skip Purgatory.

232 posted on 10/30/2011 12:06:21 AM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: HossB86
Why did Christ tell Mary Magdalen after His resurrection:

"Jesus saith to her: Do not touch Me: for I am not yet ascended to My Father. But go to my brethren and say to them: I ascend to My Father and to your Father, to My God and to your God" John 20:17

if He had already been to paradise with the good thief? Christ didn't lie, did He, Hoss?

And why did St. Peter write:

"In which also coming He preached to those spirits that were in prison." 1 Peter 3:19

If Christ was in paradise with the good thief? Did St. Peter lie, Hoss? Is the "day" that Christ referred to a literal 24 hour day that a linguistic literalist like you thinks it is or can a day be something else to Christ?

"But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord delayeth not His promise as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

Do you think that St. John lied when he wrote:

"But there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21:25

Are you prepared to admit that perhaps you aren't as well versed on Scripture as you've deluded yourself into thinking that you are, Hoss?

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16

233 posted on 10/30/2011 12:07:07 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Natural Law
Protestantism excludes the Tradition.

Until it's time for them to recite the Lord's Prayer when they add "For Thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory now and forever." which comes from Catholic tradition; specifically the Didache, and not from Scripture.

Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.

234 posted on 10/30/2011 12:19:59 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: GeorgiaGuy
Sure. The cure is Jesus Christ. The way to him is through his Bride, the Church.

Why don't the Catholics write their own bible instead of trying to pervert ours???

235 posted on 10/30/2011 2:09:26 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Campion
Oh, look: God is a "consuming fire," when you draw close to him your sins are burned away. Latin theologians called this "purgatory". Gendron calls it a "fabrication".

It is a fabrication...The verse doesn't say anything about sins...It's about unprofitable works...

There is no sin attributed to those at this judgment...These are born again Christians in heaven...

Where did you get the idea that souls and spirits could feel pain??? There are no fleshy bodies at this judgment...

236 posted on 10/30/2011 2:21:51 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: narses
If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.-- 1 Cor 3:15

If you change enough of God's words, maybe you can justify bowing to your pope when you see him...

The verse say 'by' fire...Not thru fire...Big difference...

237 posted on 10/30/2011 2:25:01 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Natural Law
So tell me where the Catholic Church states that Purgatory is either a time or a place. The Catechism refers to it as a "state".

Correct your fellow Catholics before you correct us...

You guys use the story of Abraham's Bosom in the depts of the earth as the 'place' where purgatory is...

Now YOU claim it is a state, not a place...Get your stories straight...

238 posted on 10/30/2011 2:33:12 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: starlifter
Moreover, I think a reasonable interpretation is that the thief made a good confession to Jesus whilst they were on the cross, thus cleansing his soul. A sinless soul gets to skip Purgatory.

Exactly...Just as we Christians have made a good confession and were born again, thus cleansing our souls...We will not see purgatory...That's why there is no purgatory...

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That's us...That's Christians...

239 posted on 10/30/2011 2:48:50 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
"Jesus saith to her: Do not touch Me: for I am not yet ascended to My Father. But go to my brethren and say to them: I ascend to My Father and to your Father, to My God and to your God" John 20:17

if He had already been to paradise with the good thief? Christ didn't lie, did He, Hoss?

When we die, our souls go to either Heaven or Hell; when Christ said, "it is finished," he died. His body was here; he surrendered his spirit into His Father's hands. The passage you quote and incorrectly use is after Christ is resurrected -- he doesn't want Mary to touch his body. Yet we see later where he offers for Thomas touch his wounds so he will believe.

So...I don't quite see your point.

Are you prepared to admit that perhaps you aren't as well versed on Scripture as you've deluded yourself into thinking that you are, Hoss?

Considering that you bungled so badly on the above passage, there is no need to debunk the rest. Maybe you should ask and answer that question of yourself before bringing it to me.

And also, nice mind reading by asserting my status as a "literal linguist."

Hoss

240 posted on 10/30/2011 5:37:49 AM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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