This exemplifies the embarrassing tendency to change the subject in order, as it seems, to score cheap points.
I am not arguing (here) that the saints in heaven can pray for others. YOUR SIDE asserts that they can't. Yet I get only vague answers (read all the Epistles of Paul)when I ask for the authority.
Then it is said, mockingly and quite without regard for the facts, that I am saying that it is permitted since there is no prohibition.
Is the other side's argument that it is prohibited since there is no permission?
Evidently it HAS become the bar scene in Star Wars. I'm outta here. Call me if you ever should want to have a discussion.
*sigh*
The point is not whether the saints in heaven are aware of what is going on here on earth or whether they do or are capable of praying for us, but whether we are to pray TO them for anything.
There is no precedent to support the practice and there is no Scriptural support or teaching to encourage it. Ont eh contrary, contact with those whose physical bodies have died a physical death here on earth and have left this stage of their existence it prohibited in Scripture and always has been.
In Isaiah we see that it’s only those who refused to listen to Him were the ones who listened the people who spoke to the dead.
Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
In the phrase “when they shall say unto you” it wasn’t talking about the good guys. They were asking why shouldn’t they seek help from their pagan gods.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
If you don’t see that as advice about not following those who speak to the dead that’s something you need to decide. As for me, I see it as a warning and advice.
The argument seems to be from the OT as though Christ never happened, death never defeated, the dead know nothing, etc.
Of course somewhere close by will be the same posters proclaiming whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life, etc.
Oh well..