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To: smvoice
Those who have died cannot pray for others. No matter how much someone wants to believe, it simply is not true.

Would you please show me the sola scriptura argument for this assertion?

519 posted on 11/01/2011 7:44:29 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Mad Dawg; smvoice
First is that nothing in scripture references or directs us to communicate with those who have passed from this life. In fact, the references to communication with them are very negative.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Christ died and was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. The veil was torn as a sign that the partition between us and God the Father was no longer there. He became the High Priest for all time. That means we have the ability now to go directly into the presence of the Father through Jesus. Jesus gave instructions on prayer.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

As you can see Jesus instructions direct us to pray directly to the Father. Christ suffered and died to give us that benefit. There is no greater access that anyone has then those of us who believe in Him. To pray to anyone else hoping to somehow increase our access or importance is a denigration of respect for what Jesus did for us to have that right to direct access to the Father. It’s a denial of what Jesus told us our right is.

524 posted on 11/01/2011 8:00:09 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Mad Dawg
All you need to do is read Romans through Philemon, to begin with, to see that praying for each other, the saints who are living, is what we are expected to do. Not once is praying to saints in heaven even mentioned. In the Bible, that is. THe prayers are for those saints who are living, doing the work of the Lord. Praying for doors to be opened and the gospel to be preached. That would be praying that GOD would open doors, not saints in heaven. As far as saints in heaven being able to do ANYTHING for those saints who are living, what could they possibly do? There is ONE mediator between men and God, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Tim. 2:5.

Now would you like to show me where that is considered not true?

526 posted on 11/01/2011 8:19:08 PM PDT by smvoice (Who the *#@! is Ivo of Chatre & why am I being accused of not linking to his quote?)
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