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To: MarkBsnr
To be clear: We were discussing literacy to the extent of being able to read and write functionally not an “education” in the sciences and arts and so forth.

The examples given, Elijah, Gideon, the men of Succoth, the prophet Amos(a nipper of figs!) David, Peter, are all from the very strata of society that you say were overwhelmingly illiterate.
If you are correct these were the rarest of examples and with the least means of obtaining literacy.

But reading/writing in ancient Israel was also part of obedience to God, to Torah not just a practical skill for secular advancement. All the elders of Israel in Moses’ day had to know how to read and write as a matter of obedience to God's command. (Deut. 31:11) (Deut. 6:1-9)

This aspect of literacy levels is sometimes overlooked or ignored and assumed levels of infant mortality and urbanization used as surrogates for literacy levels in the general populace of Israel.

“And, as I said,....”

Yes, you have. however those solid indications we have argue otherwise for ancient Israel.

“The leap to literacy was spurred on by Gutenberg's press, sure.”

must surely be an attempt at sarcastic humor so I'll say no more for now.

“Not sure that I understand this statement. All historians that I know of link the surge in literacy in the West to Gutenberg's press.”

Chicken or egg? In any event literacy during the latter middle ages was not in/the question, thank you.

3,652 posted on 11/24/2011 9:37:19 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
To be clear: We were discussing literacy to the extent of being able to read and write functionally not an “education” in the sciences and arts and so forth.

The examples given, Elijah, Gideon, the men of Succoth, the prophet Amos(a nipper of figs!) David, Peter, are all from the very strata of society that you say were overwhelmingly illiterate.

I'm sorry, but the level of education required to actually write some of the things that you list was far beyond the abilities of about 97% of the population at the time. If you study up on the agrarian peoples of the era, you might agree.

But reading/writing in ancient Israel was also part of obedience to God, to Torah not just a practical skill for secular advancement. All the elders of Israel in Moses’ day had to know how to read and write as a matter of obedience to God's command. (Deut. 31:11) (Deut. 6:1-9)

True. What percentage of the people of that era were considered elders? And remember that women were 50% or more (usually more because of warfare) of the population, and almost none of them were literate.

Chicken or egg? In any event literacy during the latter middle ages was not in/the question, thank you.

If it helps any, I was agreeing with your previous point that religious writings inspired or impelled many more individuals to read than would have otherwise been influenced.

3,653 posted on 11/24/2011 1:28:32 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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