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To: Jvette

Yes, the pillar and ground of the truth. The truth that all those in the Church the body of Christ possess. That is found in the Scriptures, given to the church for preaching, doctrine, reproof, rebuking, with all longsuffering and doctrine. Which comes from Scripture. And is grounded in truth.


2,932 posted on 11/19/2011 7:24:52 PM PST by smvoice ("What, compare Scripture with Scripture?..We'll have to double the Magisterium...")
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To: smvoice

***That is found in the Scriptures, given to the church***

Where does Scripture say that?

Here’s the thing, when Paul and James and Peter were writing the letters to the various Christian communities, were those letters read to the community who then decided what the Apostles meant? Was each Christian allowed to read it for themselves and interpret it as they felt the Holy Spirit had led them to do?

Or were they read to the communities by the leaders whom the Apostle chose to teach and rebuke and encourage the communities after they had moved on to other places?

To what Scripture did they turn when they searched them daily to see whether those things were so?

One of the reasons that some of the Jewish people rejected Jesus was because His message was so different than what they were/are expecting from their Messiah.

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The Jewish people had the Scripture yet they rejected Jesus.
The Gentiles had no Scripture but they became Christians.

Were the letters discussed by the community of believers to determine what was truth?

Or did they accept what the Apostles said because they accepted that Jesus had chosen them to “impart” the truth to them?

In only one place is any of the epistles referred to as scripture and that is by Peter speaking of Paul.

The only Scripture that existed at the time was the OT, therefore, in all other references to Scripture they could only have been speaking of the OT.

And in those instances, just as Jesus explained all of Scripture which foretold of Him to the two on the road to Emmaus, the Apostles use it to “prove” that Jesus is the Messiah, Lord of Lords and King of Kings. For if Jesus was not the Messiah, their words carried no truth or authority.

So, when Scripture speaks of Scripture it is so that the hearers of the Apostles would believe in Jesus and in believing in Him, they could believe in the good news they were hearing.

That is what I mean when I say that we can trust the Church in the same way we trust Jesus.

Jesus told us to trust them as we trust Him.

“As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”

“He who hears you, hears me. And he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects the One who sent me.”

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

Pilate asked, “What is truth?”

Ah, such a big question.


2,933 posted on 11/19/2011 8:22:16 PM PST by Jvette
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To: smvoice; Jvette
Yes, the pillar and ground of the truth. The truth that all those in the Church the body of Christ possess. That is found in the Scriptures, given to the church for preaching, doctrine, reproof, rebuking, with all longsuffering and doctrine. Which comes from Scripture. And is grounded in truth.

Or as some translations like to translate *a* instead of *the* since articles are not in the original Greek and must be added. The difference between the two makes a difference in meaning in English.

That truth is contained in the body of Christ, in which resides the Holy Spirit.

It says nothing about an ecclesiastical organization which calls itself the Catholic church, or any other denomination.

2 Corinthians 15:16-21 16From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus in His high priestly prayer.....

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

2,962 posted on 11/20/2011 12:57:37 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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